Thread: Stanley Chisels

Originally Posted by derekcohen

I wonder what 3 or 4 sizes others would aim for if that is all one bought?

For dovetails I would want an 1/8" and a 1/4". For more general work I want a 1/2" and a 3/4". I really don't like using wide chisels, so I could happily live with just those four.

Opinions?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek

a difficult choice, as the style of chisel also needs to be considered, my 4 choices would be
6mm (1/4")
12mm (1/2")
16mm (5/8") paring -- I've got a 16mm Bahco 956 that's very similar to a Berg from 40-60 years ago
19mm (3/4") bench
mainly because these are the ones I carry arround most frequently

How common were the old socket handled Stanley chisels in Australia? I haven't found many in my rust hunting. Found plenty of yellow acrylic handled jobs. I think I have found only one of the older type in my rummagings.

Cheerio,
Virg.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

I wonder what 3 or 4 sizes others would aim for if that is all one bought?

For dovetails I would want an 1/8" and a 1/4". For more general work I want a 1/2" and a 3/4". I really don't like using wide chisels, so I could happily live with just those four.

Opinions?

Opinions? We don't just have opinions here - we know what's right!

I have to admit I'm really more in Woodwould's camp - you can do a good job with pretty basic tools - practise & acquired skills are the really important ingredients. However, a bit over a year ago, I had a windfall & decided to invest it in a set of LN 'improved' 750 look-alikes. They are certainly nice tools for my purposes. I like the sharper edge bevels Derek mentioned, and the size suits me perfectly, but folks with big fists might find them too dainty.

But have they radically improved my work? Nope; the crappy old set I built up over many years managed to make just as accurate joints (after a bit of shoulder treatment on a couple, as per WW's comment). By a process of elimination, most of them would hold a decent edge, but the LNs do hold their edge a bit better, of course. OTOH, as WW says, a quick touch-up for a chisel takes no time at all. I also wouldn't want to hit any hardware with a LN - I reckon I'd lose a pretty big chip because of the brittleness of that metal.


There are all sorts of reasons to buy tools that have nothing to do with actual or perceived fitness for purpose, of course. Conspicuous consumerism is alive & well & always will be with us humanoids. And those who can't afford or can't bring themselves to drop large numbers of $$s on the 'boutique' sets, at least be grateful that the likes of LN and LV have upped the ante, and forced Stanley to lift their game and sell some tools (that might be) a cut above the things you chuck in the bottom of the toolbox for knocking out an occasional sliver of wood (or cut through a few nails). And you can even justify wood rather than plastic handles - besides being nicer to hold, there is a practical aspect - you can easily make new handles for socket chisels to suit your own fist & style.

Now I've raved on and not answered the original question - what are the most useful sizes? Obviously depends on what you do most & personal preferences, but I would be able to do most things quite happily with (convert to metric as you please) 1/8, 1/4 3/8 1/2 and 3/4. Having some in-between sizes is very handy for dovetailing, so 5/16 and 5/8 might be the next additions for me, but others might prefer to go wider. Like Derek, I tend not to use wider sizes much, although I do have a 1 1/4" BE I use quite a bit, & I have some lovely paring chisels, of which the 3/4", 1" and 1 1/4" get constant use - but they fall in the additional luxury class, not included in a basic "starter set".

Cheers,

Good point about damaging the more brittle exotic steel tool when encountering foreign objects - or even dropping them on a hard floor.

Originally Posted by IanW

And you can even justify wood rather than plastic handles - besides being nicer to hold, there is a practical aspect - you can easily make new handles for socket chisels to suit your own fist & style.

I've replaced the handles on all my bevelled edge Stanley and Lie Nielsen mortice chisels. There's a description of the process I use here.

Originally Posted by Woodwould

...

I've replaced the handles on all my bevelled edge Stanley and Lie Nielsen mortice chisels. There's a description of the process I use here.

nice description, thanks
... and the new handles on the screwdrivers look good as well

Originally Posted by derekcohen

An important difference for joinery, especially dovetails, is the shoulder thickness of the chisel. In the example above, the Stanley is likely to bruise a dovetail while the LN, with a minimal shoulder, will not do so. (Which is why I modified the #750s I have).

Derek, if the steel is OK, maybe they might make reasonable starting material for regrind modifications, similar to the ones you made? Especially given the price of 2nd hand 720 & 750 chisels at the moment.

Originally Posted by RossM

Derek, if the steel is OK, maybe they might make reasonable starting material for regrind modifications, similar to the ones you made? Especially given the price of 2nd hand 720 & 750 chisels at the moment.

Hi Ross

Sure. But before you buy them, check out the AI chisels. This may save a lot of time and effort and money. Please keep in mind that, like others, I have only seen pictures of the Stanleys and may be quite wrong about the thickness of the shoulders. In which case they could be a decent design for joinery. What I have been drawing attention to is the design of the Stanleys and the options one has when purchasing chisels.

As WW and Ian have intimated, you can get away with most chisels. One does not actually need anything special. However, all things equal, I do prefer working with a chisel of good design ... and there is no need not to do so. It is cheaper in the long run to understand the factors involved and make your decisions accordingly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

The AI chisels sure look nice - more food for thought. I guess when contemplating a tool modification you need to decide what price you put on the effort involved, and if the modification project is enjoyable& rewarding in its own right.

I suspect Stanleys success in this area will come down to percieved value. One aspect of this is the customer service and resultant loyalty that come with the boutique tool makers. Even if Stanley gets the specs 100% right, it is hard to beat the service offerd by the likes of Lie Nielsen - I can't see Stanley replicating this. I am prepared to reward companies that genuinely care about the experience customers have with their products, even when this means paying more. However I do understand that for others price is often a major factor.

What is good about the recent product releases by Stanley is that it seems to indicate a move away from the downward spiral by the larger manufacturers of competing only on price. More choice and maybe a midway point between the junk and the high end boutique products. Hopefully the result will be better tools in more hands.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

One does not actually need anything special. However, all things equal, I do prefer working with a chisel of good design ...

Oh - I would wholeheartedly agree with this - While I don't need a Chris Vesper marking knife or a Colen Clenton cutting guage for example, they provide great pleasure & I find it inspirational to have beautifully made tools on the bench

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Ross

Sure. But before you buy them, check out the AI chisels. This may save a lot of time and effort and money. Please keep in mind that, like others, I have only seen pictures of the Stanleys and may be quite wrong about the thickness of the shoulders. In which case they could be a decent design for joinery. What I have been drawing attention to is the design of the Stanleys and the options one has when purchasing chisels.

As WW and Ian have intimated, you can get away with most chisels. One does not actually need anything special. However, all things equal, I do prefer working with a chisel of good design ... and there is no need not to do so. It is cheaper in the long run to understand the factors involved and make your decisions accordingly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Surely the Stanley design must be above dispute if LN deigned to copy it?

Originally Posted by Blue-deviled

Surely the Stanley design must be above dispute if LN deigned to copy it?

Yes they do look similar.
If you look at the pictures that Derek supplied you can see that the LN and Stanley are very similar in shape but not identical.
The Stanley blades have bevelled edges that stop part way towards the back and there they turn into a small shoulder which runs straight towards the back.
The LN, on the other hand, have a bevel that almost meets the back of the blade at a pronounced corner. This may be more of an advantage when paring into dovetails etc. In this sense the LN is an improvement over the original Stanley.
Here is the Stanley ..



.. and here is an LN ..




Cheers
SG

Tom is correct.

The LN chisel is a true dovetail chisel, in that it has very fine shoulders. This reflects the direction specialist manufacturers are taking the bevel edge design. The Stanley chisel is closer to what may be called a bevel edged firmer chisel. This is possibly a better chisel for heavier duty work, but not targeting detail work such as dovetails. As I said before, one can use any chisel - they all work - but some designs make the task easier than others. It may just be that Stanley are targeting a different population of woodworkers than LN - carpenters rather than cabinetmakers - but they were reported as saying they they planned to compete with LN. My comment is, price aside, the LN design is superior by far. If, on the other hand, you are more interested in price than design, then your preference is likely to be reversed.

Regards from Perth

Derek

The shoulders on the Stanley might be a little hard to see, but they show up at the bevel.
If you look at the two sides of the bevel you can get an idea of the thickness of the shoulder.
As Derek has said, this does not make them a bad chisel - far from it.
In fact they may be outstanding value for money.
It will be interesting to read some reviews.
Cheers
SG

I have become intensly practical, and do not care about anything other than 'fit for purpose' with my stuff. Each to their own, and all that.

My plastic handled Marples require a few more decades of sharpening and beating with a club hammer before they require replacement, and theyll happily take a few decades of beating with a club hammer (seriously) before they are ground away enough for replacement.
My English Pigstickers suffer from handle destruction from said club hammer beating rather regularly... but the steel is content to drive its way through timber of all kinds and only requires a touch up on the stones to renew the edge... handles can be replaced reasonably easily.

However ... if I want fancy, I'd rather buy something by a small producer that gives a stuff rather than the company that sells the current Stanley bench plane. They are good for throw away builders items... but 'elephants, fair judgement and long memories' as opposed to WW's fair minded practicality.
I like a company that has a base line of quality... if that baseline is low, or variable... it all becomes too hard for me.

Whats a decent Titan or EA Berg worth on epay at the mo?