Thread: Starting out buying hand tools - to restore - or new

Hi Andrew, Old tools are the way to go if you don't mind having a bit of a tinker . They are great quality and are mostly a lot cheaper than new tools . The HTPAA tool sales are a good way of seeing and buying lots of stuff . And the price at these sales is the cheapest way to get them . Here is a link . Hand Tool Preservation Association of Australia Inc. - Home

What you cant find there try eBay, Gumtree and then shops . There is a Market place here but you have to be very quick ! Good deals disappear fast . https://www.woodworkforums.com/f220

Rob

Start reading the antique tools section right here on this forum.
Your in Ballarat check out the Mill market just before you hit Ballarat on the highway.
I've brought a few pieces there.
Saws around the $10/30 mark
Hand planes $30 and upwards.
Also check the Gtg section there's a gtg in Ballarat very soon Sunday the 8 April.
Sorry I can't do the link thing.
I know this because it's in my backyard.

Cheers Matt

Collecting and restoring antique hand tools is certainly a fun and rewarding hobby in it's own rite...

But it is it's own hobby....

After chasing way down deep into that rat hole myself... I would advise you to consider:

What is your hobby? Is it working wood or is it rehabbing, repairing, and restoring old rust?

If your hobby is working wood... And you really honestly love working wood - stay away from collecting and restoring old tools.. You will hardly get any woodworking done... It's not that you can't - it's just that you will split your time between multiple hobbies... Just like as if you spent time golfing, fishing, and woodworking...

Hmm, I think that's a slightly pessimistic view Truckjohn! Indeed, it's very easy to fall into the collecting trap, but the OP is well along in life & hobbies, so can probably do the cost/benefit analysis & not get too carried away.

The advice to buy the best because it will work right out of the box has merit, but that presupposes a very healthy tool budget. Collecting old tools from fleamarkets etc., can certainly become an obsession, but if you exercise a little restraint there shouldn't be too mu ch danger. As long as you steer clear of the real basket cases (unless you're buying for parts), the little bit of tinkering to bring a semi-decent old tool up to speed is usually a valuable lesson of itself - you get to understand what makes them tick.

You said you have "little capital to spend", so I think looking out for sound older tools at sensible prices is the way for you to go. Buy only what you reckon you need, as you need it, is always my advice, though it's hard to pass up a real bargain & not come home with a tool or two you didn't know you had to have! In general, try to get the 'generalist' tools first, the ones needed for just about any job. For example, I'd concentrate on getting a few good bench planes before branching into the more specialised examples like ploughs & moulding planes. It takes a very long time to assemble the sort of kit I've got, in fact you never really 'finish', despite your best resolutions, but the rate of acquisition slows considerably after a while....

Cheers,

Restoration is one way of learning in detail how a tool works, even more so if you make them from parts or scratch.

Restoration ranges from a bit of rust removal and a sharpen to full on parts replacement and even re-machining.

The latter requires specialist tools and knowledge that you may not want to know about, whereas the former should not take too long and you will still learn something useful.

Originally Posted by iandrewmartin

I've been doing basic woodworking and making small projects for many years, mainly shelves and the like. As I grow older (already old) I'm finding more interest in working with my hands and hand tools.

With little capital to spend, I'm wondering what places I can look into to find cost effective (cheap) tools - planes and so on, rip and cross cut saws that I can restore?

Your ideas?

whilst loath to recommend that those light on capital invest in quality new tools, if you intend restoring older tools, you really need access to the knowledge encapsulated by "sharp", "tuned", "properly set-up"
The best source is someone who already knows the answers and can advise when you have gone far enough.
If you don't have access to such a person, then there is merit in purchasing at least one of each tool type that is already "tuned", "sharp" and "set-up". This tool doesn't need to be new from a premium maker -- old is just as effective as a learning aid -- it just needs to be "tuned", "sharp" and "set-up" so that you have a standard against which to measure your own efforts.

What do you plan on making?

I only have two certains on this list. Carpenters saws, old ones.

Get at least one good one (that is working sharp, straight, etc). I'm not aware of anyone making really good new ones. You can get a "break down" saw - impulse hardened tooth saw that rough crosscuts fast - if you want. They're faster than hand filed saws, but hard on the back side of a cut. Not talking about itty bitty dozukis, but western style bulky modern saws with aggressive impulse hardened teeth.

I can't remember the second one now, but as a suggestion, if you only get one good plane (and you do intend to do a lot of work by hand), the LN #7 jointer is an awfully good way to go. Jointers are probably the hardest to refurbish until you've done a couple (supposing you want to make one flat), and if you decide you don't want it, you'll lose little selling it. I've bought and subsequently sold a lot of LN planes, but I've lost more money on stanley planes in some cases, when the seller wasn't as honest as they should have been.

I think I have the fastest and cheapest setup for redoing tools by hand (because I'm intentionally a maker, which makes you awfully good at refurbishing) - if you go down this road, start a topic and I will tell you what I do in each case. I can generally clean, flatten and sharpen an old set of chisels in about half an hour. Sometimes ten minutes on newer sets (including back flattening). Usually 15 minutes or so on a stanley smoothing plane, including flattening the sole, the iron and preparing the cap iron.

Originally Posted by iandrewmartin

Hello all;

I've been doing basic woodworking and making small projects for many years, mainly shelves and the like. As I grow older (already old) I'm finding more interest in working with my hands and hand tools.

With little capital to spend, I'm wondering what places I can look into to find cost effective (cheap) tools - planes and so on, rip and cross cut saws that I can restore?

Your ideas?

I would start by figuring out what sort of hand tools you will use most and focus on that first....

For example - I find block planes extremely useful on almost every project.
Same for smallish cross cut saws... I use little razor saws and my favorite Ryuba on almost every project..

These aren't particularly expensive new - but used articles tend to be beat up or missing parts... And don't come at a particularly good discount. A new Stanley low angle block plane runs $40... My little XActo razor saw was probably $12.00... The saws are throw aways (though I just sharpened my XActo saw... The file cost more than the saw.. But it cuts like 100 times better now than new..). The same $40 Stanley plane may run $20-30 used - and a used model may require significant work to get it going as well as $$$ spent on rust cleaning chemicals, sandpaper, and a good flat surface for lapping.... I recently bought a used #220 block plane just to get the iron.. Stanley has moved production of Irons out of Sheffield overseas to China.. The plane was a wreck/missing parts and went in the trash. The iron was chipped but still had the original factory grinding on the edge and lacquer on it.. Plenty of life left.. It was an original Sheffield iron and I got it for less than the price of a new Chinese iron..

On used saws.... Once again - this can be a whole hobby of it's own. Be sure to count the price of saw files, a saw set, and a saw vise/clamping setup of some sort (it could be as simple as a slotted piece of wood to clamp the saw plate into your bench vise while filing.). I would focus on patterns you will use frequently for the actual work you do and go from there...

It doesn't have to turn into a hobby of it's own so long as you are careful about it... For example - good sharp hand saws are a thing of light and joy... And keeping them sharp is just part of their ongoing maintenance. So perhaps use a slotted block of wood and then buy the saw set and file for the 1 hand saw you use most and go from there.

The debates of whether you should buy new tools or restore old tools and whether restoration will detract from building and creating will all depend on what you want to achieve. Is your woodworking a pure pastime? Is the journey as important as the destination?

It is a subject of perpetual debate on these Forums. For some of us the ability to turn trash into a treasure is on the same level as building an object from the raw material, but it is not for everyone. Hand planes and hand saws are two areas that are particular favourites for restored tools. There is some satisfaction in turning this:

Simonds scene.JPG

into this:

Simonds No.372 rescued.jpgSimonds No.372.jpg

or this:

Simonds No.8.5.jpg

into this:

Simonds No.8.5 restored.jpgSimonds No.8.5 etch.jpg

Regards
Paul

As someone who started off with money to burn and went head first into "premium" tools, I can say with 100% conviction that antique is the way to go. Almost all of my premium planes, with the exception of my HNT Gordon wood-bodies, have gone by the wayside and been replaced with old tools.

There is a bit of a learning curve with it, particularly in knowing what to buy and how to get it running again, but, rest assured, that barring missing or broken parts, the old tools will do EXACTLY the same thing as the new ones. And you'll spend 1/10 the price on them.

I'd look for Stanley planes, Titan chisels, and Disston saws. All great brands and all readily and cost effectively available in Australia.

Saws are a bit of a different story than the rest of them, because sharpening a saw takes a lot of practice. It's not like sharpening a chisel. There is genuine skill and knowledge required to do it right. So if you're going to go the vintage saw route, you may consider reading some literature or reaching out to some of the forum members for advice on how to get them tuned up for proper use.

Good luck. Don't hesitate to seek help here. There are a lot of us who are willing to provide it!

Cheers,
Luke

Rob;
Thanks for the links. I'm interested in making the transition once I hit retirement age to full time tool restorer and wood worker to keep my income coming in. I have ten odd years to go before I can retire, at a 1000 hours a year I'll be an expert on the tools by then and looking forward to working with my hands until I'm 80, 90, who knows.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Start reading the antique tools section right here on this forum.
Your in Ballarat check out the Mill market just before you hit Ballarat on the highway.
Also check the Gtg section there's a gtg in Ballarat very soon Sunday the 8 April.
Cheers Matt

Thanks for the info Matt;
I had not thought about the Mill Market. I'll pop up there on my next day off.
Got to ask: what is the GTG section?

Originally Posted by BobL

Restoration is one way of learning in detail how a tool works, even more so if you make them from parts or scratch. Restoration ranges from a bit of rust removal and a sharpen to full on parts replacement and even re-machining. The latter requires specialist tools and knowledge that you may not want to know about, whereas the former should not take too long and you will still learn something useful.

BobL;
Thanks for replying. In the short term I'm looking to get a basic had tool set. In the process (being a real tinkerer) I want to be able to refurb, repair and sharpen all of my tools, and as I stated in another reply, when I can I'd like to quit full time work and restore, sharpen and so on for others. Right now I've been reading everything I can find and over the last couple of years have been watching Paul Sellers youtube channel. He does a lot of work on refurbs and sharpening.

Don't mind learning on the cheap. Additionally I want to share all of this with my son who has the woodworking bug too.

Originally Posted by D.W.

What do you plan on making?
I think I have the fastest and cheapest setup for redoing tools by hand (because I'm intentionally a maker, which makes you awfully good at refurbishing) - if you go down this road, start a topic and I will tell you what I do in each case. I can generally clean, flatten and sharpen an old set of chisels in about half an hour. Sometimes ten minutes on newer sets (including back flattening). Usually 15 minutes or so on a stanley smoothing plane, including flattening the sole, the iron and preparing the cap iron.

D.W.;
THanks for adding to the conversation. So far as making I'm looking to initially make about 15 bookshelves. They'll be simple, and straightforward to get all of our books out of boxes.
I've just been refurbing a 1950s era bookcase for my son. Final sanding being done now. Paint and finish in the next couple of weeks.

Then there'll be two workbenches (Paul Sellers has just done a 9 part video series about this subject) my son and I are intending to build one of these each.

Then there'll be a new dining table, most likely in 2019, and then we'll see what we make from there. I do have some hobby related items that I'd like to build also (2019 likely), including a travelling model making case; a tool case/chest for my yet to be collected tools.