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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bueller View Post
    That is phenomenal. Would you mind giving us a rundown on what it involved to machine it?
    I have learnt that I dont like doing a WIP as I end up putting myself under a bit of pressure to finish it and its nice to be able to put the work down for a little while, while thinking a problem through. Besides, Ian has done a number of excellent write ups on his builds.

    I would have used gauge plate for the build if I had been able to source it locally but ended up going with mild steel. Couldn't buy steel in the sizes I wanted so used a combination of bandsaw and milling machine to machine the various components to size.
    Side plates were cleaned up using various grits of sandpaper on a flat surface. Cut the profile of the sides using a bandsaw and cleaned them up using a combination of file, grinder and sander. Escarpment was cut out with a combination of hole saw, drill and file.
    None of the above was particularly complicated, just careful measurement and attention to detail, much like woodworking.
    Components were drilled and riveted together very much as Ian describes.

    The milling machine came into its own towards the end . I found that the base was a couple of hundredth's of a mm out of square and with a 16 degree bed angle that is significant and quite visible in the mouth. The shoe for the adjustable mouth runs on the side plates at the front of the plane and while it only has 3 or 4 mm travel I wanted it moving parallel to the sole. I set the body upside down on the mill square and true. Then planed the rails on the side plates where the shoe runs, bolted the shoe in place, then machined the whole base flat. Still needed some wet and dry on a flat surface with a bit of elbow grease to get the machining marks out of the base.

    There was a bit of extra work in going for the adjustable mouth but I weighted that against the risk of making a mistake filing a fixed mouth and potential disappointment if I got it wrong. Filing a fixed mouth is a job that needs high accuracy and comes at the end of the build after a whole heap of other work has been invested. If I could have done that tricky job at the start of the build so I wasn't fussed about throwing it away and starting again I probably would have gone with the fixed mouth.

    The thumb wheels were turned on a lathe with the groves cut on the mill using a ball nosed end mill

    Final flattening of the sides was done with wet and dry on a flat surface and then used a fine scotchbrite pad on the grinder for a final polish. Rubbed the metal surfaces down with boeshield which has taken it back to a nice matt finish.
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Tony, perfection is a nebulous concept,

    Cheers,
    I was being a bit cheeky Ian, I seem to recall you saying "this ones not perfect" several of your builds.
    Point taken about the peening, will try to remember next time.
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    .....Sure enough, mine comes in at 2.36Kg, so Tony's tips mine by a bit more than 100 grams, which surprised me because we've used similar thickneses of metal, but steel is less dense than brass (~7.5 vs 8.6). My plane is 200mm long (Tony's 220).
    Ian

    I normally quote the density of steel at 7.8, but on checking, the range is 7.75 to 8.05 because steel is really an alloy so quite variable. Mild steel is 7.86. Brass too is an alloy, but as you said, marginally heavier, with a range of 8.4 to 8.73. I'd be happy to have either plane irrespective of their weight.

    Regards
    Paul
    Last edited by IanW; 3rd August 2020 at 10:22 AM. Reason: fix quote
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_A View Post
    ......I have learnt that I dont like doing a WIP as I end up putting myself under a bit of pressure ......
    I know that feeling! I must confess that any "works in progress" I do are usually several stages ahead of anything posted, & I don't begin posting 'til he project is far enough advanced that I'm reasonably sure there's going to be a happy splash-down. Apart from the embarrassment of something going very wrong, you don't want a bunch of silly moves committed to print when there's only a small window to go back & edit a post. I do try to point out any problems/disasters I did strike, in hope of saving anyone following the same path.

    Stumbling along teaching ourselves "lost arts" is a lot of fun, but I for one often end up taking the wrong fork in the road. It would be so good if we could get together in a big shed occasionally, for mutual coaching sessions. This forum is a "virtual shed", and a great resource, but not quite the same as "being there". However, the object of the exercise IS to have fun (& produce a nice & useful tool like Tony's at least occasionally ), and bit of stumbling shouldn't put us off.

    I also put an adjustable toe on my very first shoulder plane (which was the first metal plane I made), largely because I couldn't think of a way to fix a bridge accurately enough. This is the plane as made: 1 SP.jpg

    The build was a classic example of stumbling, I had no-one to turn to for advice in those days. I sweated the sides to the blade bed, which given the primitive set-up I had, was a sufficiently fraught exercise without adding the complication of trying to keep a bridge in place as well as the blade-bed while I got everything hot enough for the solder to flow (how I wish I'd thought of using rivets!). So I hit on the idea of a "lever wedge" pivoting on screws, but it was only after I drilled the holes for the pivots that I realised I would not be able to withdraw the blade through the throat, and I would have to make the mouth huge to get the blade out that way (just one reason I work out designs on paper now, before cutting any metal!). The solution was a removable toe-piece, so that's how my adjustable mouth came about.

    The front piece, which holds the front of the plane together and protects the sliding toe-piece from being banged into the blade, was my first attempt at metal dovetails. I understood the concept of the process, but not the details, and they came out embarrassingly gappy. So I soldered them up (making the gaps more obvious still ). From this exercise, I learnt that when double-dovetailing metal together, at least one of the parts has to be reasonably ductile, not hard & flakey like the 380 brass I was using (I was only vaguely aware there were different alloys of brass! )

    I didn't have access to any metal-working machines other than a tiny little lathe with all-manual feeds, which I used to make the knobs. I knurled them (very poorly) with a jury-rigged knurling tool on the drill press. Don't bother trying it, it's stupidly awkward and the results are not worth it.

    The plane worked remarkably well, the best home-made plane I'd managed to that date, and I felt like the cat that got the cream for quite a while. But many years down the track, with a few more successful planes under my belt, and having discovered the Miller pattern, my first SP started to look very dowdy. So I had another crack at it- I cut out that gappy front piece and put in a new one, with far less-obvious joinery, and re-made the knobs with my much-better lathe. Brass & Rosewd SP.jpg

    I think it improved the look marginally, but that clumsy, tentative side profile was never going to satisfy my eye, so I just had to make the one shown a couple of posts back. It works slightly better, thanks mainly to the heavier L-N blade (I used a Record blade for #1, which is much thinner) and the workmanship is a bit better, thanks to experience.

    When I look back on it all, knowing what I know now, I'm surprised it turned out as well as it did, but I guess you don't need to be an old-hand to get a good result if you work carefully and learn from others. From go to whoa it took many months, so I'm glad I wasn't doing it as a WIP!

    Cheers,
    IW

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    .....I normally quote the density of steel at 7.8, but on checking, the range is 7.75 to 8.05 because steel is really an alloy so quite variable. Mild steel is 7.86. Brass too is an alloy, but as you said, marginally heavier, with a range of 8.4 to 8.73. I'd be happy to have either plane irrespective of their weight....
    Paul, I did a very quick search just to reassure myself that I didn't have it bass-ackwards. Like you, I got a range for both brass & steel, so I opted for a rough mean for each - my arithmetic may have let me down for the steel....

    Cheers,
    IW

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Paul, I did a very quick search just to reassure myself that I didn't have it bass-ackwards. Like you, I got a range for both brass & steel, so I opted for a rough mean for each - my arithmetic may have let me down for the steel....

    Cheers,
    Ian

    No problem at all. Just getting the record straight. Now if you or Tony find that your planes are cluttering up the tool cupboard I can easily forward my postal address to help out.......



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Ian

    No problem at all. Just getting the record straight. Now if you or Tony find that your planes are cluttering up the tool cupboard I can easily forward my postal address to help out.......



    Regards
    Paul
    Thats a mighty generous offer Paul, but Im sure that someone of your ability could knock one of these up in short time.

    Mine weighs 2436 g and the thumb wheels collectively weigh 200 g.
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_A View Post
    Thats a mighty generous offer Paul, but Im sure that someone of your ability could knock one of these up in short time.

    Mine weighs 2436 g and the thumb wheels collectively weigh 200 g.
    Tony

    Sounds as though you coud get two in a 5Kg satchel. Consequently I will wait until you make the next one so you can post off two for the same price!

    It would have to be short time for me. For the first time ever I have drawn up a schedule for the rest of the year as SWMBO was in cranky mode because I was not getting on with projects she deems more important. Scratching my head, thinking and particularly procrastination have been deferred until 2021!!

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Tony

    Sounds as though you coud get two in a 5Kg satchel. Consequently I will wait until you make the next one so you can post off two for the same price!

    It would have to be short time for me. For the first time ever I have drawn up a schedule for the rest of the year as SWMBO was in cranky mode because I was not getting on with projects she deems more important. Scratching my head, thinking and particularly procrastination have been deferred until 2021!!

    Regards
    Paul


    Paul,
    Sounds like your digging a very deep hole?

    Cheers Matt.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    I'm guessing the toe is close to 20mm longer, and the extra metal in the nose contributes to the difference?

    If the extra weight is mostly in the nose, that should make it even better for trimming tenons as it will sit very firmly & flat when you start the cut. Don't know if it was deliberate, but you can claim it was a premeditated design feature, & we'll have to believe you....

    Cheers,
    The front shoe is 80 mm long and from memory your plans were a little shorter. The extra length was deliberate for the reasons you mentioned.
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simplicity View Post
    Paul,
    Sounds like your digging a very deep hole?

    Cheers Matt.
    Matt

    Funnily eough it does involve a few holes (in the garden). I am monitoring the shape of the holes very carefully and fighting shy of long rectangular voids.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post

    Sounds as though you coud get two in a 5Kg satchel. Consequently I will wait until you make the next one so you can post off two for the same price!
    Have a piece of steel cut for the bed of the next one, the matching half of the one used for this plane. Perhaps a skew shoulder plane, that would be a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    It would have to be short time for me. For the first time ever I have drawn up a schedule for the rest of the year as SWMBO was in cranky mode because I was not getting on with projects she deems more important. Scratching my head, thinking and particularly procrastination have been deferred until 2021!!

    Regards
    Paul
    You have my sympathy.
    You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_A View Post
    ...Have a piece of steel cut for the bed of the next one, the matching half of the one used for this plane. Perhaps a skew shoulder plane, that would be a challenge.....
    That's something I've complained about a couple of times, Tony, there's not much else you can do with a wedge of metal, so you get a lot of twin births with rebate planes!

    Actually, a skew is really no more difficult than a 90 degree bed. Peter McBride did a nice expose here. Unfortunately, it's one of those threads that has lost its pictures (even a link to other pics on his website is broken) and without the pics, the explanation might be difficult to follow if you're a visual person like me.

    The key feature is that the bed angle is identical on both sides of the wedge, one is moved back a bit, that's all. So your sides remain the same except the mouth/escapement must be moved back on the trailing side.

    From my limited experience (two skewed SPs & two bench planes), I'd warn you to go easy with the skew angle on a low-angle bed. As discussed elsewhere, this becomes exaggerated as the bed angle drops. I put far too much skew on the first SP. I tried skewing.

    It sounds like you are into mock-ups, which is a very good idea when feeling your way with a new design. For something like this, I use cardboard for the sides & scraps of wood for 'blade beds'. Try a couple of different angles & you'll soon see what I'm talking about. Start with a skew angle of about 5 deg. for a 15-16* bed & see how that looks - you may like a bit more angle, but I think you'll stop before 10 degrees, which is what I used first up because it seems to be a fairly common skew angle for 45* beds.

    Getting the body together is no different -you can choose to skew the bridge so it's parallel with the bed, which is a bit tricky, & not necessary if you use the thumbscrew method instead of a plain wedge, imo. Much easier to keep the bridge parallel with the sides & skew the top of the wedge.

    The part that has given me the most hassles is getting the front of the mouth dead-parallel with the blade. If you stick with an adjustable toe, this problem largely disappears, you can work on that part so much more easily, & if you file a little more off than you intended in getting it right, you aren't stuck with a gappy mouth like you are with a fixed toe.

    So, we're now all holding our collective breath, waiting to see what will emerge....

    Cheers,
    IW

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony_A View Post
    Have a piece of steel cut for the bed of the next one, the matching half of the one used for this plane. Perhaps a skew shoulder plane, that would be a challenge.



    You have my sympathy.
    I may need more than sympathy:

    Day 7.jpg



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    I may need more than sympathy:

    Day 7.jpg



    Regards
    Paul
    Gosh
    Paul your offed sympathy, yet you want more,really!

    Cheers Matt.

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