A new thread about a new threader making a new thread

[Mountain Ash]

Hi all. Wooden threads hold a certain charm and I was keen to incorporate them into my workshop. I have tried IanW's router method but made a bit of a hash of it. Recently a wood threading kit came up on Ebay and I managed to snag it. My 1st attempt was with Oregon and I was disappointed but I recalled IanW suggesting Merbau could be a goer and it certainly was. I made the threads a week ago and this morning I made some jaws for my first wooden screw clamp.

20221022_122703.jpg

I am very happy with the results and my purchase. Obviously I am limited to one size (1 inch) but this will do for some more clamps and possibly a moxon vise. I will revisit the router method one day but for now this kit works a treat.

[johknee]

Nice work, MA! Your screw clamp looks great.
These are on my 'to make' list.
I ordered this hand screw clamp kit a few days ago. The kits are cheaper than a complete clamp from Timbecon, so i thought i'd make my own and then I'll have a go at making wooden threads.

[Mountain Ash]

$7 US. That is cheap. Nice find. I think James Wright (Wood by Wright YouTuber) has done a video on that kit

[IanW]

Good work, MA - be prepared to become quite addicted to wooden handscrews! For clamping anything up to 250-300mm they are just about the only clamps I reach for. The generously-sized wooden jaws are far less likely to mark your work & once you get used to holding a handle in each hand & spinning the clamp to quickly open or close it to slide on they are pretty quick to apply. A bit tricky to do one-handed though, so I still use a couple of old "F" clamps or one of those near-useless squeezy things occasionally just to hold something lightly while I get the 'real' clamps on.

I think I've mentioned this several times, but do be careful about putting much force on wooden clamps if the jaws are more than a little bit off-parallel; the middle (tension) screw is likely to snap. I've warned people about this but most manage to do it at least once with finer screws. It won't be too much of a problem with 1" screws, but I began with 1/2" screws & discovered that little vice very quickly! As long as you keep the jaws no more than a few degrees off-parallel when tightened up they are amazingly strong & can apply more than enough pressure for routine glue-ups. I soon moved on to larger sizes, and developed a bit of a fetish for testing various woods to see how they take threading:
Clamps various sizes.jpg

Some day when you have time, you might re-visit the router method. As you discovered, it can be a bit fiddly to get your first attempts working well, but once you crack it, it gives you far more scope - all you need is a tap, & there are lots of ways of making those. The advantages of the router are speed, & being able to cut perfect (or at least very tolerable) threads in almost any wood you're likely to encounter. A good bit does help, I use a three-cutter solid carbide bit from Lee Valley, which was quite inexpensive when I bought it but probably not such a bargain now. My bit has done miles of threads in some pretty tough woods like Bull oak, but is still going strong. I reckon it has been the best bang-for-buck tool I ever bought!

If you want jaws that can tolerate being off-parallel, you need the Jorgensen type, with rotating barrel nuts (as per the kits johknee linked to), so the screws can remain straight. Those kits are very reasonable (in $US) but postage will be the usual killer. My advice would be to go for the 10" kit (still very reasonable), because that's the size I find the most useful for cabinetry (unless you do a lot of small work).

You can make DIY clamps in the same style using all-thread. They open & close more slowly without the left & right hand screws, but are still quite practical. The threaded nuts go in the same jaw, as for the wooden type. I made several pairs of these before I started making all-wood versions:
Clamps threaded rod ed.jpg

Ironically, about the only place I use the metal-threaded clamps now is holding threading jigs on the router - the finer threads are easier to tighten down hard to resist vibrating loose:
threading screw.jpg

(In the above pic, I've shifted the piece with the guide-hole to the back of the threaded piece of the jig so I can thread up to the edge of the handle. I do this only for the "push" screw, the tension screw is not threaded right to the handle so it doesn't catch in the 'loose' hole of the non-threaded jaw.)

I've found that while the off-parallel clamping ability of the Jorgensen style may appeal in theory, it's very rarely useful in practice. For starters, it's not very often that you need to clamp off-parallel surfaces & when you do, you'll find it rarely works well, the jaws tend to slide off or cause the pieces you're trying to clamp to slide as you tighten them. I've found it's often way better to make a couple of shaped cauls & keep the clamp jaws parallel. Even though that's more bother, you usually end up with a better purchase on the job.

So happy clamp-making, whether they're all wood or metal-screwed. Be careful, it can become a bit of a habit:

handscrews.jpg


Cheers,

[Mountain Ash]

Thanks for the "warning". For some reason I was a bit dubious about the effectiveness of the kit but in practice it works really well. I will have to get the router method working because when I get round to making my "forever" bench, it will have wooden screws for the leg vise and shoulder/wagon/some other vise.

[IanW]

...... I was a bit dubious about the effectiveness of the kit but in practice it works really well. I will have to get the router method working because when I get round to making my "forever" bench, it will have wooden screws for the leg vise and shoulder/wagon/some other vise.

Traditional threadboxes can work very well as long as you choose your wood carefully & the cutter is sharp, but they won't go far in woods like she-oak. Whatever woods you thread, the cutter will eventually become dull & you will have to sharpen it. That's where I came to grief with the one I used early in my career. I wrecked metres of dowel before I got it working again. By contrast, the first time I set up a jig to use a router, it worked perfectly. Of course that was a fluke, as I subsequently discovered when I tried to show someone else how easy it was. These days I can generally get a set-up going first or second try, though I have bad days occasionally, where it takes a huge fiddle to get the thing working properly. It's always when I'm trying to hurry & haven't been careful to get the cutter in the right spot. Once it decides to cooperate, it's very gratifying to see flawless threads emerging from the exit side of the jig!

A shoulder vise in the European style is very simple & straightforward & I doubt it would present any problems for someone with your background. The traditional wooden tail vise can seem complex when you first look at the diagrams, but I'm sure you look at far more complex plans every day. I confess I was too intimidated when I attempted my first 'real' bench and made a travelling dog system (aka "wagon vise") instead. But I felt I'd been a whimp & I really liked the idea of a proper tail vise, so eventually plucked up the courage to try making one. Once I started putting it together, it all fell into place very quickly. You do need to work accurately if you want it to work smoothly, but I doubt that will cause you any problem at all. The worst part of the job is creating all those dog holes, especially if you choose to make your bench from woods like spotted gum or forest red gum!.

Dog board & apron.jpg

That's one task where I don't hesitate to call on the electron-burners and a purpose-made jig.

Dog slotting jig.jpg

You can certainly do it with hand-tools, but I'm definitely no masochist, I detest routers for their noise & dust, but they sure speed up this sort of operation!

Since I've had a bench with tail vise, I can't imagine how I ever got along without one!

Cheers,

[Cklett]

I think I've mentioned this several times, but do be careful about putting much force on wooden clamps if the jaws are more than a little bit off-parallel; the middle (tension) screw is likely to snap. I've warned people about this but most manage to do it at least once with finer screws. It won't be too much of a problem with 1" screws, but I began with 1/2" screws & discovered that little vice very quickly!

I must be the one who did not listen. Literally while you guys were in your discssion, this happened:



*grrrr*


That is the second I broke. A couple months ago I broke a bigger one. Luckily the bigger one broke closer to the handle. There I could shape the end of the threaded part to a tenon and drill a corresponding hole in the handle and glue them back together. Now just the jaw opening is a tad less than before....



Not sure how to fix the small one now.

I guess I am a slow learner.

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[LanceC]

That's great MA. Like you I also tried the router method one afternoon and didn't have much success, but then I think a large part of that was using tas oak, as it splintered really easily. Seeing your completed clamp, and Ian's farm of clamps has inspired me to try again. My wife and I were only mentioning last night that we could use more clamps.

[IanW]

Actually, Ck, I'd say you are only partly responsible for those breaks. From the discolouration around the break on the larger screw, it looks like there was a knot or grub hole there, I'd expect more splintering if it were due to bending stress alone. Likewise, the smaller one looks like the grain was running obliquely across the break, creating a weak point. Even though I try to select the straightest grain possible for screws, wood is wood & I occasionally get sections of short grain in what looks to be a sound piece, so I've had a few failures like that over the years.

It's usually not worth the time or effort to try & repair a busted screw & besides, that's a clear case of defective materials. If I were you, I'd send both clamps back to the manufacturer & demand replacements before the warranty expires.....

Cheers,

[Mountain Ash]

Hi CK. Bother!! Were the screws tassie oak? I was planning on trying some soon. Hi LC. I recently got a copy of "The Workbench Book by Scott Landis" and it has an interesting section on wooden threads. As to the router method, I had no trouble making my "nut" and setting out the thread . It was getting the routed screw to marry up with the nut

[IanW]

..... Seeing your completed clamp, and Ian's farm of clamps has inspired me to try again. My wife and I were only mentioning last night that we could use more clamps.

You know the old saying that often pops up on the forum - "you can never have too many clamps"!

Most of the eucalypts I've tried are not great for wood screws, they do tend to splinter more than finer-grained woods. I have threaded a few successfully, like spotted gum & Ironbark, but they are a severe test of the accuracy of your setup - if the cutter isn't cutting freely or not quite in teh right spot, you will certainly get a poor thread (or none at all).

There are many other woods that do thread well. I don't know what Tassie woods may be available to you, but good dense blackwood or maybe some of the smaller scrub wattles should thread well. You do live in the "apple isle" & if you can get your hands on some nice straight bits of apple or pear wood, they are among the best threading woods I've used, & thread beautifully with either router jig or the traditional threadbox. Apricot is as good (well, the one lot I've gotten my hands on was), & I presume the other fruitwoods in the same family would be excellent too.

While you're making handscrews, give some thought to a couple of pairs of wooden bar clamps. Once you use a couple of these you'll never want to use metal sash cramps or pipe clamps again...

1 Moving jaw assembly.jpg 3 1M bar clamps.jpg

Actually, I'm not too sure the old saying is entirely true. A few years ago my clamp collection threatened to over-run my shed, so I had a heavy cull - sold a few & gave a heap away to friends. Since then I've made a few more to try out 'new' woods & different sizes, but the population increase has slowed to a manageable rate....

Cheers,
Ian

[IanW]

..... I had no trouble making my "nut" and setting out the thread . It was getting the routed screw to marry up with the nut....

My diagnosis would be that you had the cutter a smidgin too far forward or back. If the dowel is a bit undersized and the cutter set a bit deeper than it should be, the thread will feed through the pilot nut (particularly if it is not very deep), but it will alter the pitch slightly & your screw won't fit a longer nut such as your clamp jaws. You should be able to confirm or reject that by carefully measuring the pitch of your faulty screw. Count the number of threads over at least two inches because the discrepancy will be small & hard to discern clearly over a short length of thread.

If the cutter is set too deep, it will produce an undersized thread with sharp lands that are inclined to chip, but it should still fit in a nut, albeit loosely.

There is no doubt a well set up threadbox will produce a very nice thread on suitable woods with none of the fuss involved in getting the router cutter going the first time or two, but as I say, once you get it working properly, you can churn out dozens of screws effortlessly in no time:

Completed pairs red.jpg Clamps 1.jpg

All done.jpg

I've been wood threading for so long I tend to forget some of the pifalls, but at least I can recognise any problems fairly quickly now (well, on good days, as I said). One thing I've done almost from the beginning is when I make any new thread size or pitch, I save a scrap of really good thread from that setup & use that as an aid when setting up the same thread the next time. It's a pity you blokes live way down there in the antarctic, if you were nearby I'm sure we could get your jigs sorted pretty quickly...
Cheers,

[taz01]

Hi ian,

Is there a sticky post to a post on the router method for making threads?.

Regards,

Adam

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[IanW]

No sticky Taz, but I did a search for an old post I vaguely remembered & found this .

There's a fair bit of discussion & chit chat in the thread which may or may not be helpful. It was a bit more bother posting pics back then so it's a bit light on illustration. You could revive the thread if you have questions, but I don't think MA will mind if you ask questions in this thread, it would be "on topic"....

If you have access to old AWR magazines, there is also this article: Making wood screw threads, part 2 93:80 by some nutter...

Cheers,

[Cklett]

Hi CK. Bother!! Were the screws tassie oak?

I do not know. I think they are various different woods. They have been given to me by a very generous forum member. Seemed he did manage to have too many clamps [emoji6]

If I were you, I'd send both clamps back to the manufacturer & demand replacements before the warranty expires.....

Cheers,

IanW, I might do that. [emoji6]

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