Thread: Back Saw Till

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

I know wood in general will corrode steel due to its moisture content so why do people use wood for this purpose? .

I'm not convinced of this if the wood is dry enough. I have pulled out a lot of floor board nails that didn't have a speck of rust on them. The ones that have had rust have been from verandas or pergolas etc where they have been exposed to the elements. Some timbers have a lot of tannin in them and will convert some steel to ferrous tannate which will form a black stain on both the timber and the steel but it won't usually go far into either.

I used (KD?) Western Red Cedar for my till and two years in haven't had any staining or rust issues. then again I live in a fairly dry climate.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

About 12 months ago I made a till for my small backsaw collection and was surprised to find when I removed one after the saws had been in it for a while that the wood I used for the blocks that hold the blade (cypress) had stained the saw plate quite noticeably and it took quite a bit of hard work with some aluminium foil and Autosol to remove it. Is this a problem others have had and is there a wood that won't do the same?

I know wood in general will corrode steel due to its moisture content so why do people use wood for this purpose? I suppose it was noticeable because these saws had pristine plates and on a saw with years of patina, rust and corrosion it might have not been noticeable. I have just received some brand new saws and I don't want them to suffer the same fate as the others have even though I could clean the stain off the plate.

Chris
Would it be possible now that the till is together, to open up the slots say to 3/4 mm then fit in some leather or felt or something.
For the blades to rest sit on.


Cheers Matt,

What would happen if you used the saws more often?

Originally Posted by Pac man

What would happen if you used the saws more often?

All jokes aside I don't think it would make much difference because I would put them back as soon as I was finished with them. I will change the wood blocks to another species and see what happens.

Chris

I have heard that you have a rather nice collection of handmade saws, which I think you should show us.

I had better check my saw till. Pine does not give much trouble. The other solution would be to varnish the slots if there is insufficient room for a leather insert.

Regards
Paul

I use KD pine, never had a problem.

Chris, it's the bloody Cypress!

Cypress is usually very wet and i've never seen it available as kiln dried or fully air seasoned. In my, albeit limited, experience it can seem bone dry on the surface and still be soaking wet deeper in. Also it's full of resins so maybe those are reacting with the saw plates?

Cheers, Dom

Chris - I had a similar experience using Northern Silky oak in a saw till. It made a right mess on a coupe of saws, leaving a band of corrosion that wouldn't polish out & they're still wearing them. In this case the wood was very old, recycled stuff, which should have been well & truly equilibrated by the time I used it. I also had a bit of a disaster putting away a saw which must have had a drop of sweat on it - that really did a number on my saw! (See pic here)

As BobL says, there has to be moisture in the mix, of course, but some woods seem not only to be more hygroscopic (i.e. able to acquire any moisture available more readily), but also contain compounds which react with the steel to boot, & I reckon NSO is in that category. Somewhere, I read that Camphor Laurel has 'protective oils' and is suited to use where it will contact steel. I did a few rough experiments & found it is just as capable of promoting rust as any other wood, if at all damp. Woods of the Pine family are generally considered petty benign, so it's possible your Cypress was simply wetter than you thought. But all woods are hygroscopic, so the best you can do is make sure whatever you use is as 'dry' as it can be when you start.

I doubt there is any wood that won't contribute to a spot or two of rusting if given half a chance. I generally use Camphor in my tool cupboard but as well as making sure it is thoroughly 'dry' I add bit of insurance, by shellacking the parts that will contact steel and giving them a good waxing before the tools go in. Since I've been doing that (~15 years or so) I've not had any major problems, but I've also been more careful in other ways, like wiping sawdust off saws before storage and giving things a wipe over with a light oil if I'm leaving them alone for any extended period. It also helps if you can close your tool storage to limit air exchange as much as possible.

A few rust spots or minor pits won't affect a saw's function in any appreciable way, but like you, I do like to keep any tools looking all bright & shiny as long as possible. However, despite all my care, you don't have to be a genius to tell which of my saws are less than 10 years old from the ones that are closer to 40, or from the ones that are quite a bit older still. We all acquire the scars of living a life, I'm afraid....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Pat

Chris, it's the bloody Cypress!

But it was laying around and looked like it needed to be used.

So the question remains, what to use in a saw till where the timber contacts the blades? Is Pine the got to timber for this purpose?

A tip I found elsewhere and it definitely works to get remove corrosion etc from saw plates is used Autosol and aluminium foil.

I guess I just fluked it when I built a till as the backsaws hang from the handles and the only thing touching wood is the spine. I used pine as thats what was around so got lucky there also. The long saws show no sings of being affected but then none of them have pristine gleaming blades either. I do use the oily cloth wad in a can to wipe them down every couple of months.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

But it was laying around and looked like it needed to be used.

But not fit for purpose!