Thread: Timbecon - Unbranded "Low-angle jack plane"

Put up a picture showing the front of the Record and another showing the frog with the lever cap, cap iron and blade removed. From that we can rough date it and work out the length of time it’ll take to get it to perform at it’s optimum; and also what that optimium actually is...

I can go one place easier with Graham’s Stanley quality scale; look to see where it was made. If it says “Made in the USA” or “Made in Canada” it is likely to have been made either before WW2 or just after. From the 50’s onwards only UK Stanleys were imported and while the early ones (1937 to ~1950) were “ok” the majority soon devolved into dross. Post WW2 US Stanleys are a bit thin on the ground.

Originally Posted by Spyro

I have that plane too, can I ask, do you find it difficult to open & close the mouth? Doesn't matter what I try it seems impossible to loosen up the lever under the front knob, I have to knock it a few times with a small hammer to get it to move.

Dumb question but I have to ask; you DO loosen off the front knob before trying the move the lever don’t you?

Strip the whole thing down and try the fit of every mating component. Does the front mouth insert piece slide smoothly by hand or does it bind? Does the threaded boss engage smoothly with the slot in the lever? Does the lever move side to side smoothly? It’s a case where you have to find which pair or pairs of components don’t work as well as they should and fettle them until they do.

Mine does slide pretty smoothly but I tap the lever with a bit of timber to fine tune the mouth opening; I get better control that way rather than using my thumb. I also do it to all my block planes.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Dumb question but I have to ask; you DO loosen off the front knob before trying the move the lever don’t you?

Strip the whole thing down and try the fit of every mating component. Does the front mouth insert piece slide smoothly by hand or does it bind? Does the threaded boss engage smoothly with the slot in the lever? Does the lever move side to side smoothly? It’s a case where you have to find which pair or pairs of components don’t work as well as they should and fettle them until they do.

Mine does slide pretty smoothly but I tap the lever with a bit of timber to fine tune the mouth opening; I get better control that way rather than using my thumb. I also do it to all my block planes.

Yes I I loosen it, I've even taken it all off and pretty much showered the whole thing with WD40 but no it's pretty well stuck.
Anyway I'll try again, sorry for highjacking the discussion.

Try this; slide in the mouth plate loosely then press down on it and try to slide it back and forth; if it binds then examine the outer corners for burs and the inside corners for high spots. Gently remove any burs with a scrap of 400 grit emery paper. Then totally degrease the mouth plate and mouth opening and scribble all the mouth plate rubbing surfaces with black Texta. Repeat the rubbing activity; you are looking for shiny high spots on the mouth plate and black spots in the mouth where the Texta ink has transferred from one to the other.

Once you’ve identified where the two pieces are catching each other you can then identify the cure. Depending on which surface are rubbing you can scrape, polish or lap them together; you must avoid scraping any surface that can potentially seat the mouth plate deeper into the mouth as this will require the whole sole to be re-flattened. Polishing with 800 grit upwards, lapping with fine carborundum (or diamond) paste or burnishing with a polished HSS flat bar will limit the potential for harm.

Happy for you to PM me for my contact details if you’d like a telephone (or better written) tutorial.

With the OPs original question - perhaps the vendor might be asked for their opinion?

Timbecon isn't the kind of business to sell something they dont think is decent. That isn't the type of business they are.


Has anyone evaluated it? Perhaps if OP buys it, have it studied by one of the forums plane aficionados to check it over?

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

Try this; slide in the mouth plate loosely then press down on it and try to slide it back and forth; if it binds then examine the outer corners for burs and the inside corners for high spots. Gently remove any burs with a scrap of 400 grit emery paper. Then totally degrease the mouth plate and mouth opening and scribble all the mouth plate rubbing surfaces with black Texta. Repeat the rubbing activity; you are looking for shiny high spots on the mouth plate and black spots in the mouth where the Texta ink has transferred from one to the other.

Once you’ve identified where the two pieces are catching each other you can then identify the cure. Depending on which surface are rubbing you can scrape, polish or lap them together; you must avoid scraping any surface that can potentially seat the mouth plate deeper into the mouth as this will require the whole sole to be re-flattened. Polishing with 800 grit upwards, lapping with fine carborundum (or diamond) paste or burnishing with a polished HSS flat bar will limit the potential for harm.

Happy for you to PM me for my contact details if you’d like a telephone (or better written) tutorial.

ok I've figured out what's going on, I hope people don't mind if I post a couple of photos.

It's funny that I only noticed this now after owning and using the plane for years, but this was actually the first time I wanted to adjust the mouth and tried to use this feature. I had set it once when I first got it and just left it there.

ok so this is the knob.



It's made of 3 parts, the wooden knob itself, the threaded rod with the round brass plate and the top screw that secures it all together. And it's all supposed to stay together and behave as one piece.








Except it doesn't. If I screw it on the plane and tighten it and then turn it counterclockwise to loosen it, the top brass screw unwinds itself, and the knob comes off the plane leaving the threaded rod on the plane. After this the only way to remove the rod from the plane is with a pliers.



Maybe I'm missing something but I have no idea how this was designed to work in the first place. What was supposed to stop the 3-piece knob from coming apart if you turn it counter-clockwise? Am I missing some component maybe?

Originally Posted by Kuriatko

Wow - Great participation and plenty of good advice. Thanks all for sharing your thoughts.

Let's say that I have already put in the bin the idea of buying the expensive brand-new unbranded #5 plane I linked in my first post (yes... $199 for something I don't even know how to use is expensive in my view )

I'll do a step back: I already have a Record #4, which - in my newbie opinion - seems in decent conditions. Bought it second hand a few months ago (together with some other tools), but I have used it only a few times 'just for fun'. In the meanwhile my baby was born and have also been super-busy at my job, so never had the time to do something with the plane. The few projects I have done in the last months never required the use of a hand plane.

So, I have suddenly realized that maybe I should first learn how to use the plane that I ALREADY HAVE, before buying another one (I think I have the "tool sickness"... that thing that makes you buy whatever tool you find attractive, even if you don't really know if you will ever use it ... I am sure it is pretty common here on the forum!).

Let's start again with a new question: how can I learn to use my #4 (including sharpening, tuning, understand the issues, etc)? Any project you want to suggest I could copy from Youtube? Or there is a friendly member here on the forum who wishes to share his knowledge and a couple of hours with me ? (I can repay the favour in beers...)

OK - so back to the OP & answering his questions (although I'm sure the notes on adjusting the LAJ are useful.)

Good choice Kuriatko! Learn to use what you have.

There are a lot of good YouTube turorials. Matt Estlea has a great series of tutorial videos & some really good hand-tool tutorial projects.

Here is his playlist on setting up & using hand planes:
Setting Up and Using Planes - YouTube

Sharpening Video:


Using a bench plane:


And here is a good beginner project that includes step by step video instruction:
Dovetail Box Project | Free Online Woodworking School - Matt Estlea

Rex Kruger has some very approachable tutorials - start with these:
Sharpening:


Plane Use:


For another take on plane setup Paul Sellers has good videos - for example:

Great video's RM. K. I find Rex Krueger to be particulatily down to earth. Paul Sellers is excellent but sometimes a little long winded

Ιn my opinion this "stupidly sharp edge" is a bit of an unnecessary fixation that ultimately puts a lot of people off. I think most people are looking for "how to get your tools reasonably sharp in the absolute minimum amount of time, because sharpening is boring"

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by spalamaras2003

Ιn my opinion this "stupidly sharp edge" is a bit of an unnecessary fixation that ultimately puts a lot of people off. I think most people are looking for "how to get your tools reasonably sharp in the absolute minimum amount of time, because sharpening is boring"

You need to understand that YouTube video titles are a form of clickbait - the content creator is trying to get people to watch their videos in a sea of clutter. Watch the Matt Estlea video - it is about getting a plane blade sharp enough to actually work.

With regard to "how to get your tools reasonably sharp in the absolute minimum amount of time" - that depends on how you want to define "reasonably". In my view, that means sharp enough to pare end-grain in soft timber and sharp enough to refine the edge so it can hold up for an extended period of use without folding or chipping. That means SHARP. Honing should not take a long time if the edge is sharp to begin with and is maintained in good condition.

Read through this thread to see what can be achieved in terms of edge durability with a properly sharp tool - The Unicorn method

Originally Posted by Spyro

..... Maybe I'm missing something but I have no idea how this was designed to work in the first place. What was supposed to stop the 3-piece knob from coming apart if you turn it counter-clockwise? Am I missing some component maybe?

Aha, simple diagnosis and the remedy is pretty simple too: LAJ4.jpg

As you can see, I've been there before you, but it was quite a few years ago & I'd forgotten about it & it wasn't 'til I went & looked at my plane that the penny dropped. In my case I made a new knob & shaft, because I could, and I wanted to preserve the original as it was in case I decided to get rid of the plane, so I wanted to keep the original knob original.

The not-so-clever idea of the original knob seems to be that you tighten the stud through the knob enough to prevent the wood rotating as you tighten/loosen it. This clearly doesn't work well, as you've discovered. The little round nut under the disc is supposed to act as a lock-nut & prevent he shaft unscrewing through the disc, but it's hard to tighten everything up enough for it to hold. Use a drop of Loctite on the bottom (disc) thread and lock nut before screwing the top barrel nut down as hard as is safe. That should be enough to lock the shaft on the knob & cure your problem, but the pins would add extra insurance. Worked for me anyway, I've obviously had no further trouble & even forgotten I had a problem in the first place...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Aha, simple diagnosis and the remedy is pretty simple too: LAJ4.jpg

As you can see, I've been there before you, but it was quite a few years ago & I'd forgotten about it & it wasn't 'til I went & looked at my plane that the penny dropped. In my case I made a new knob & shaft, because I could, and I wanted to preserve the original as it was in case I decided to get rid of the plane, so I wanted to keep the original knob original.

The not-so-clever idea of the original knob seems to be that you tighten the stud through the knob enough to prevent the wood rotating as you tighten/loosen it. This clearly doesn't work well, as you've discovered. The little round nut under the disc is supposed to act as a lock-nut & prevent he shaft unscrewing through the disc, but it's hard to tighten everything up enough for it to hold. Use a drop of Loctite on the bottom (disc) thread and lock nut before screwing the top barrel nut down as hard as is safe. That should be enough to lock the shaft on the knob & cure your problem, but the pins would add extra insurance. Worked for me anyway, I've obviously had no further trouble & even forgotten I had a problem in the first place...

Cheers,

Thanks Ian, good to know I'm not the only one, I was starting to question my sanity

I'm keeping this plane forever so I don't mind modding it. I'll drill through the disc and into the wood of the knob and insert a rod or something. Plus loctite on the screw. If it all goes sideways I'll make another knob.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by RossM

You need to understand that YouTube video titles are a form of clickbait - the content creator is trying to get people to watch their videos in a sea of clutter. Watch the Matt Estlea video - it is about getting a plane blade sharp enough to actually work.

With regard to "how to get your tools reasonably sharp in the absolute minimum amount of time" - that depends on how you want to define "reasonably". In my view, that means sharp enough to pare end-grain in soft timber and sharp enough to refine the edge so it can hold up for an extended period of use without folding or chipping. That means SHARP. Honing should not take a long time if the edge is sharp to begin with and is maintained in good condition.

Read through this thread to see what can be achieved in terms of edge durability with a properly sharp tool - The Unicorn method

I know, I know, sorry I'm not arguing. I've actually watched all those videos in the past, and they're good.

The thing is, I'm not that far removed from being a complete newbie, and I still remember exactly what it was trying to learn woodworking from youtube. So I'm just adding that newbie perspective, now that I also have a (vague) idea of what else is actually important. Youtube can make woodworking sound like a sharpening competition. But there's another 99 things that are important, and it's easy to forget that 99% of my attention needs to be invested elsewhere from sharpening. Just pointing that out.

Originally Posted by IanW

Aha, simple diagnosis and the remedy is pretty simple too: LAJ4.jpg

Yet another golden post by Ian. Thank you.

What Ian didn't say is that he also took the opportunity to subtly change the size and shape of the knob - presumably to better fit his hand size and technique. Also he changed the knobs timber type and the finish 'cause he couldn't help himself....