Thread: Tips for Choosing Steel Type for Chisels and Planes

Hi Russel,

No doubt there's a lot of info on this topic and a lot of types of tool steel, A2, O1, Chrome Vanadium, Manganese, Powdered Metal, Cryo treated, vacuum hardened, HSS, the list is endless and the attributes of each are either pitched as state of the art or steeped in the mystical traditions of the sword smiths, or (and this is common) the perfect marriage of both.

I'm not an expert but I would say that water or oil stones, diamond stones or just some sheets of wet'n'dry in decreasing grits on a piece of laminex will all be perfectly effective on your manganese steel.

I'm sure some of the guys will have more specific info regarding the 'fancy steels', but I use a few really old planes and chisels, some new ones with more exotic metallurgy and a bit of hss and have never had a problem with just a pair of water stones. One of these days I might add a coarse diamond plate to do some grunt work though.

Cheers
Matt

Hi Russell,
You are going to get a vey wide variety of opinions on this topic, I think! There is an awful lot of stuff about the various steels here & on other forums if you have the time to look. Half of it is rubbish, (& I have no idea which half! )

I had not heard that you can't mix oilstones & HSS. Just as well, because I have been sharpening HSS plane blades & chisels on oilstones for more years than I can remember. I have noticed that some steels, not necessarily the HSS variety, will clog my Arkansas stones quicker than others, but since I don't know the composition of most of them, I have no idea of what component may be responsible. The cure for me is to use a very light mix of kerosene & oil, and clean them frequently by rubbing down with a piece of similar grit carborundum stone or a fine diamond plate.

The choice of steel for cutting edges is an arcane art, and influenced at least as much by prejudice and imagination as any science, methinks (and I'm as suceptible as the next person to prejudice, so am not claiming any immunity!). I have changed my stance a lot over the years, from seeking out the hardest steels I could possibly find, to being very happy with good tool steels like those in my Hock plane blades. I've decided that they strike a very happy balance between ease of getting a good edge and wear characteristics, and suit my needs well.

It depends much on what you like to chew into with your cutting edges, of course. These days, I prefer to stick with more manageable material & leave the hard, recalcitrant stuff to the die-hard enthusiasts & masochists, so that colours my view of things. When I do have to chop holes in wood like Gidgee & Bull-oak it's a toss-up which of my tools are best. My HSS LN chisels tend to chip, even with steeper than normal bevels, while some of my old Titans want to curl over. P'raps these new powder-metal chisels would be the Goldilocks tools for those jobs, but I've decided to just grit my teeth & resharpen frequently under these conditions....

Cheers,

Russell

There has been a lot of discussion on these matters on fora over recent years, and blogs. A good place to start is WoodCentral Hand Tools - Message Index where there have been exhaustive discussions over recent years, other fora will have correspondence as well. Look at the Lee Valley website for the new PM-V11 steel, there has been comments on fora as well, including by Derek.

The OldTools Archive is worth searching. The My Home Page -- Brent Beach has a huge amount of material on this topic.

Steve Elliott Site Map, has done a lot of research, and this is one(?) of his web sites.

Personally I have mostly old carbon steel edges, but (old, but unused) HSS Titan-Stanley blades and (fairly new) Academy blades sharpen fine on ordinary King waterstones. Some cryogenically treated M2 chisels I picked up recently will be interesting to hone (whilst 2nd hand they are sharp and unused - so some time before sharpening).

So Russell... we are looking forward to your anaysis, and conclusions, resulting from your research!

Cheers
Peter

My HSS LN chisels ...

Ian, please tell us more!



Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Ian, please tell us more!
Regards from Perth
Derek

I'll second that.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Ian, please tell us more!



Regards from Perth

Derek

Woops! Brain fade, or carelessness, or both on my part, Derek!
I meant A2, which is NOT a high-speed steel, of course - can't get any slips past the eagle eyes on this forum!. I was lumping it in with HSS because of its brittleness, not its high-temperature properties.

To expand on my comment:
I was being glum about my LN chisels because I don't like the recommended higher grinding/sharpening angles for dovetail work due to the pinching & poorer penetration it causes. However, if I drop the angles to what I prefer, I risk chipping when I use them on harder woods. At the time I wrote that, I had been chopping holes in woods like Gidgee & our eastern She-oak (which is a few Janka grades above your WA variety, on average) and had a couple of my chisels chip quite severely.

Before you all berate me, I know it's mostly my fault - I had increased the honing angle before getting stuck in, and I thought I was taking it gently, but obviously not sufficiently, on either count. It's all about compromises, and if you harden a steel to the top of its range, you are also going to maximise its brittleness. I do like the size & shape of these chisels and their nicely-ground blades with fine lands, & their full range of sizes, so I live with their vices and virtues. Chipping is a bad vice, though, because it means a heavy re-grind when it does occur, so I don't think my LN chisel set is destined to last 5 generations.....

I'm trying my damndest to ignore these new-fangled PM thingies.......
Cheers,

Originally Posted by Russell Cook

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if we could put together some basic tips for deciding which kind of steel to select when buying tools.

For example, one would be "Don't buy HSS tools if you intend to use an oilstone".

Any others related perhaps to type of wood being used etc?

P.S. Any related to when not to use manganese steel would be particularly useful for me!

good rule of thumb is ;
1. save HSS for use in power tools
2. use HCS for hand tools

it takes a sharper edge than other steels and thats what counts in a hand tool, its disadvantage to most of the others is it doesnt hold an edge as long, so what! (with a bit of practice) it only takes seconds to re-hone the edge. the disadvantages of HSS imo far outway its inherent advantages when used in hand tools



cheers
chippy

OK, I might send an email to Mujingfang to suggest they consider making some planes and chisels using high-carbon steel instead.

Thanks Chippy for summarizing the situation so succinctly.