Needs Pictures: 0
Results 1 to 15 of 27
-
7th January 2020, 08:19 PM #1
Handsaw sharpening aids. Jointers and saw sets.
As there has been something of a resurgence of interest in recent months of handsaws, at least in part owing to Simplicity's offer of a large number of vintage handsaws at a price even "The Godfather" would be unable to refuse, I thought it might be timely to revisit the devices used for jointing and setting handsaws. I have to state that I am not an expert in this area and neither do I collect the devices below. It is more that I have just accumulated a few and I am using these merely to demonstrate what is available.
Perhaps I can deal with the jointer first as it is less sophisticated and I have fewer examples of this device. Simply put it is a file held at 90 degs to the edge of the teeth. While the saw is mounted vertically in your saw vice with the teeth uppermost the file is run along the teeth until a flat spot is evident on every tooth. At that point every tooth is now the same height and the next step of shaping can be commenced.
The following pix show a home made holder that is long enough to hold a large file, a Pike brand that has a spring to hold it against the saw plate and a fairly ubiquitous device that was made for several companies including Simonds:
P1050892 (Medium).JPGP1050893 (Medium).JPG
This was Disston's jointer:
Disston saw jointer.png
If you are confident that you can keep the file square on to the saw plate, you may not need a holder at all. I like the holder as it is one less task on which you have to concentrate. I like my homemade version but it is too deep to joint at the heel unless the handle is removed. It is a design I copied from Andy Lovelock.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
-
7th January 2020 08:19 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
- Join Date
- Always
- Location
- Advertising world
- Age
- 2010
- Posts
- Many
-
7th January 2020, 08:24 PM #2
I forgot that this is a very simple jointer that can be made up easily from scrap material:
Taintor jointing.png
This is from a disston "Saw, Tool and File" publication:
Saw care. Jointing.jpg
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
-
7th January 2020, 08:36 PM #3
Paul,
Great idea on a little back to basics,
I’ve only ever thrown caution to the wind,no not the wind that I solo generate.
An just hope i joint the teeth square and true by just holding the saw in me mits.
Praying I don’t rip my hands to shreds in the process.
Maybe I should get or make a jointer.
Cheers Matt.
-
7th January 2020, 10:10 PM #4
I keep intending to make something to hold the file but after you have jointed the saw the need is no longer there until next time comes round. In fact it's not hard to do with just the file and so far not a scratch.
Regards
John
-
7th January 2020, 10:31 PM #5
While I am not aware of jointers being available today (not really an issue as you can make your own in about half an hour if you follow the design in my post above) that is not true of saw sets. There have been many styles produced over the decades and some are still available today. However, I thought a little bit of history might be appropriate, but I stress it is only a little bit. Enough perhaps to whet your appetite and start hunting around the garage sales, flea markets, online and second hand stores.
There are two fundamental types. Sets that are struck, normally with a hammer and sets that involve squeezing with a pliers type action. I am only going to mention the hammer style briefly as they are not common today and can be expensive. I should add that there are lever type saw sets too but those are primarily utilised for crosscut logging saws and I do not plan to include them here where we are talking hand saws. This is the first example, which is very simple and was made by Atkins and called the Criterion:
Atkins Criterion saw set. 1895[46411].jpg
The second one made by Disston and called the "Star" set is more sophisticated and is sought after by collectors making it expensive to acquire.
Disston Star set[46413].jpg
Personally I believe that the tooth being struck deforms the steel to an unacceptable level. However, in the golden age of saw production I suspect this was the technique used as if you were setting dozens of saws per day in the factory it was not as tiring as a plier style set would be.
This brings us to the plier style and the devices that would have been most used by the carpenters and woodworkers. In other words the consumers. Early plier saw sets were primitive and not worthy of too much comment in the context of this thread.
Possibly the Taintor was the first set that was fully adjustable for a range of tooth sizes:
Taintor saw sets.jpg
P1050895 (Medium).JPGP1050896 (Medium).JPG
The principle is good but it is a little flimsy. Simonds marketed this tool as their No.197
Disston had a couple of saw sets. The Triumph was the top of the line:
Disston Triumph Saw Set 1912.jpg
P1050898 (Medium).JPG
It should be noted that both the Taintor and the Triumph were made in three sizes to suit different tooth sizes. I won't trouble to describe their operation as I would only be repeating what you can read in the manufacturer's blurb.
This leads us on to the next style of set. from left to right , EC Stearns, Simonds and Keen Kutter:
P1050897 (Medium).JPG
From left to right,bergman, simonds, Simonds No.395 and EC Stearns:
P1050902 (Medium).JPG
Note that the lever is on the underside.This permits the tooth to be set by only moving the fingers with the hand remaining stationary as opposed to these next two where the top armis the moveable lever. Diamond Edge (trade name for Shapleigh Hardware) on the left with the other undisclosed.
P1050903 (Medium).JPG
It is not possible to operate these sets without moving the whole hand.
The next style is the pistol grip models made by Stanley. No.42 on the left, 42W in the middle and the king of them all, the No.42X on the right:
P1050894 (Medium).JPG
Stanlet Saw sets. cat No.34[46417].jpg
The first two Stanleys used a thumb wheel to adjust the set to suit the thickness of the plate. The 42X has a piston that presses firmly against the saw plate with the initial pressure and a plunger that sets the tooth and engages as the lever movement continues. It is superb. Except... that without the handle removed the pistol grip fouls the handle. So it is my preferred set when doing a restoration as almost inevitably I remove the handle.
P1050901 (Medium).JPG
In modern times the choice seems to be either the Eclipse models or even more recently the Somax No.250, which I think is a japanese or Chinese copy of the eclipse. Both sets incorporate a piston similar to the Stanley No.42X, but unfortunately, to my mind, they utilise a moving top lever. In the pic below the set on the left is an Eclipse No.77 with modified wings to suit the large teeth on a milling bandsaw. The broken Eclipse No.770 is a later model made from aluminium (the 77 is brass) and the blue set is the Somax No.250.
P1050904 (Medium).JPG
The other issue I should mention is that small teeth require a narrow plunger. Some of these come with different plungers from the factory, but often it is not too difficult to take them apart and file or grind the plunger.
This is not intended to be a comprehensive review so many models of set have not been included. If you have a particular saw set you would like to put up please feel free to do so. Lastly I would add that if you are only setting the occasional saw you can put up with an awful lot.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
-
7th January 2020, 10:40 PM #6
The term "jointer" is new to me. I started an apprenticeship in 1957 and the term used to get the teeth the same height was "topping". We learn something new every day.
JimSometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important...
-
7th January 2020, 10:46 PM #7
This is not really anything to do with sets or jointers (or toppers if you prefer) but I turned it up when I was doing some research. It may suit somebody where their vice does not readily accept the saw vice that IanW has posted in another thread. It is freestanding but needs to be clamped against a bench or similar as the last thing you want when saw filing is unwanted movement of the saw.
Handy Andy freestanding saw vice p1[46414].PNGHandy Andy freestanding saw vice p2[46415].PNG
I would adapt it so that it would accommodate a 26" or even a 28" saw without having to shuffle it along.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
-
7th January 2020, 10:48 PM #8
Thanks Paul, a timely post post for me.
Some of the saws that I received from Matt, were obviously using the same dentist as Chad Morgan.
As I can’t afford Braces for them all, I will be looking to do some of the dental work myself.Brad.
-
7th January 2020, 11:06 PM #9
-
7th January 2020, 11:08 PM #10GOLD MEMBER
- Join Date
- Oct 2018
- Location
- Dandenong Ranges
- Posts
- 1,903
Thanks Paul. Same thoughts as Ironwood. I am looking forward to sharpening a couple more of my saws and recently bought a Somax saw setter. My first effort had been the subject of another thread.
-
8th January 2020, 08:40 AM #11
I had meant to include another saw set in my second post and forgot. This plier type set is similar to some of those already described, but it is unsuitable for our hand and back saws.
P1050900 (Medium).JPG
It is massive and probably weighs four times that of the sets previously described. It is intended for the large crosscut logging saws and circular saws.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
-
8th January 2020, 12:02 PM #12
An with love from Germany.
This I brought years ago, just because I’m soft with no back bone,
Made in era when we decorated tools because we could.
Ahrem,s
Good line
Germany
I’ve never actually used it, it just hangs on the wall an looks fantastic,
Maybe I should look into it a bit more!
Cheers Matt.
-
8th January 2020, 12:25 PM #13
-
8th January 2020, 12:33 PM #14
Matt
Nice looking old tool. Some information below. Your set appears, I think, on p11.
Attention!
I believe it was intended for circular saws and the large crosscuts (not to be confused with a crosscut handsaw) as I saw a reference to it weighing in at around 1Kg.
I am sure it looks most impressive on the wall.
Regards
PaulBushmiller;
"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"
-
8th January 2020, 08:38 PM #15SENIOR MEMBER
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- Location
- South Africa
- Posts
- 950
I pull mine out every now and again and fondle it a bit.
399B883A-A24C-4F06-AE98-F0F0AD517013.jpg
Similar Threads
-
FREE: QLD Handsaw sharpening vice.
By cjbfisher in forum SWAP OR FREEReplies: 3Last Post: 26th June 2019, 10:42 AM -
Handsaw Sharpening. Bump.
By pmcgee in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWEREDReplies: 2Last Post: 12th April 2013, 12:24 PM -
Are There Any Aids To Seeing ?
By abrogard in forum WELDINGReplies: 49Last Post: 18th March 2010, 04:38 PM -
handsaw sharpening.
By Travis Edwards in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWEREDReplies: 15Last Post: 9th March 2010, 06:14 PM -
handsaw sharpening
By weisyboy in forum HAND TOOLS - UNPOWEREDReplies: 12Last Post: 11th July 2008, 12:27 AM