Thread: My first tool cabinet

I use kero with my stones and wipe the chisel/ plane iron down after. Hand power and hand tools are all kept in the same cupboard. Rust is a bit of
a problem but easy to keep on top of.

Originally Posted by section1

The only thing that comes to mind is different metals, I know in those early days they used different metals anyway that's what an antique dealer told me. He said you cannot use those rust cleaners on old tool because it will eat it away and true enough that's what happened. The metals they used were much better than today and maybe that's why they have lasted this long and end up in antique stores and flea markets and some that clean them up properly end up looking like mint. I don't want to imply LN or Veritas are producing garbage I'm sure it's not their intention they are quality tools but some things like the grade of iron that's being used on their tools is most probably out of their hands.

Well, section1, I wouldn't put too much store in what antique dealers tell you, unless he is a bona-fide metallurgist!

Old steels will rust just as happily as any 'modern' steel, & I've seen plenty of examples to back that assertion! The number of old tools surviving probably has much more to do with how many were made & sold, & how well previous owners treated them, than any inherent superiority of the alloys. The formulations are not all that much different, in most cases. After all, it's the ferric iron which has the super affinity for oxygen, and that forms around 90% or more of any steel alloy likely to be found in woodworking tools. Some modern steels (by 'modern', I mean post 1930's) pit easily with that peculiar zigzag pattern that looks like a mini lightning bolt has burnt out a chunk of metal. It seems to me to be related the chromium & vanadium content, but I'm no metallurgist, either, so it could easily be some other factor.

Rust has always been with us (that's how we got all that iron ore in the first place!), we just have to learn ways of slowing-down its evil work as much as we can....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Well, section1, I wouldn't put too much store in what antique dealers tell you, unless he is a bona-fide metallurgist!

Old steels will rust just as happily as any 'modern' steel, & I've seen plenty of examples to back that assertion! The number of old tools surviving probably has much more to do with how many were made & sold, & how well previous owners treated them, than any inherent superiority of the alloys. The formulations are not all that much different, in most cases. After all, it's the ferric iron which has the super affinity for oxygen, and that forms around 90% or more of any steel alloy likely to be found in woodworking tools. Some modern steels (by 'modern', I mean post 1930's) pit easily with that peculiar zigzag pattern that looks like a mini lightning bolt has burnt out a chunk of metal. It seems to me to be related the chromium & vanadium content, but I'm no metallurgist, either, so it could easily be some other factor.

Rust has always been with us (that's how we got all that iron ore in the first place!), we just have to learn ways of slowing-down its evil work as much as we can....

Cheers,

Ian,
might be able to shine a light on those modern "lightning strike" rust patterns.
Are these the ones?
The worm like ones are a type of crevice corrosion called Filiform corrosion, in this case under a thin clear paint film, ironically used to stop rust appearing on the blades
There are also probably a couple of other types of corrosion going on in the picture below...galvanic & crevice. There are 3 metals, and cavities in the solder line.

The "V" shape crevice between a plane blade and a back iron, and the back iron and the lever cap are also ideal locations for crevice corrosion, particularly as they are usually the meeting of slightly different alloys of iron forming a potential for galvanic corrosion. (carbon steel, mild steel, cast iron) also there might be chrome or nickel plating scratched or cracked with more crevices adding to the mix. Add some deposits of wood shaving or dust, and you have the same type of problem seen in crevices under cars, before modern coatings and treatments, where mud pack was the enemy.
One of the strangest things is - that all other things being equal, it can surprise a designer by appearing after a small change in just physical geometry, something that was disastrously found well into production of car models in the 50s - 60s.
Regards,
Peter

Well I'm constantly fighting an up hill battle with it just last night I sharpened a few blades and like said I use them daily and my no.7 had a streak of rust forming on the bottom. I just don't get it, they say use your tools and no rust will form and I can see that's a load of crock. Anyway back to work, hopefully I'll get this project finished and then it's night shift, the thing you do to just to make a wage.

For a couple of years we lived at Strathfield when we first came downfrom the farm.
I found tools rusted quickly.
When we moved the tools were packed away and, this morning, I unpacked them. Many things are covered with rust, a light rust, I hope.How can I remove it, please?
Bill.

If it's light just use steel wool if it's not don't go any lower than 400 wet'n'dry also use wd40 instead of water as a lubricant once your finished wipe it down thoroughly with metho and then lightly coat it with oil I prefer jobo oil from LN still trying to find it else where.

Might be johoba oil? (*)

There are definitely threads on here about anti-rust coatings and strategies

Cheers,
Paul

(*) Can probably get it from the Johobas Witnesses - they'll come to your door.

Jojoba OIL 100 Pure Uncut Virgin Grade 1L | eBay

Get it by the litre

Good man thanx lol I called it jobobo when it's jojoba lol

Peter, thankyou for that. The 'lightning strike' corrosion I was talking about looks a bit different (I'll try & get a pic ), but I have long suspected it stems from galvanic action, too. I assume there must be inclusions shaped like the pits, that form during cooling of the alloy, making borders where galvanic currents can set up. I've seen that filiform rust you show, too, but what I'm talking about occurs on clean, polished surfaces. We learnt a bit about the topic of galvanic action in surgery, which made me aware of how easy it is to invoke. Putting metals in nice, warm electrolyte solutions such as all body fluids are, is asking for trouble. You have to make sure plates & screws are not just the same alloys, but are made from the same batch!

BTW - one of those welded HSS Stanley blades was my first 'after market' blade. Fortunately, I never had any rust problems along the fusion-welded edge, but was aware of the potential. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they were only made here in Aus., were they not? I was working in Canada when a friend told me about the wondrous new plane blade he had bought, and I got him to send me one. I thought it was the Ant's pants, & a huge improvement over the standard blades I'd been stuck with up to then, but they had disappeared by the time I got home in the early 90s. Fortunately, Lee Valley & Hock came to the rescue with their various offereings, and although I wouldn't say either is superior at holding an edge, they are both a little thicker, which makes a noticeable difference in my old Stanleys & Records.....

Cheers,

Peter, this is the kind of corrosion pattern I was talking about: The two pics are of the same piece of metal, with the blueing lightly sanded off in the second pic., to more clearly show the peculiar zigzag, linear pits.

1095 1.jpg 1095 2.jpg

I've noticed this same pattern on some older plane & chisel blades. I don't know their composition, but this is 1095 blue-tempered spring steel. These pits can form very quickly, & are quite deep, so no chance of sanding them out (I've tried hard to do so, on a couple of occasions! )

They have long intrigued me, because they seem so different from 'ordinary' rust-pitting like I see on old saws, or on this 100 yr. old (or thereabouts), plane blade:

Plane blade.jpg

You'll probably tell me they are just the same process, & it's all to do with fractals.....

Cheers,

Apologies if this is a mild hijack, but rust was a major part of this discussion.