Thread: tool handles

Originally Posted by IanW

I wouldn't be too sure about that, Paul. There is clear precedent for ivory-handled Holtzapffel chisels (scan down the page a bit). I'd say if the ivory handles came with the lathe, there's a good chance they are intimately connected. Of course another possibility is that the previous owner was making a batch of multi-tools, but I rather suspect he was a well-off chap indulging in a bit of conspicuous consumption. I believe you had to be well-heeled to afford a Holtzapffel - they were not cheap!

Ivory has appeared on quite a few tools over the years as structural parts, not just decoration. The famous one from the Yorkshire Wolds being the oldest "modern" tool I know of.....

Cheers,

Ian

I had never even heard of Holtzapffel before. I looked at the link but could not enlarge it to get a clear view. I then Googled images for Holtzapffel and it still only brought up that single set so I am thinking it was a one-off made for the great Exhibition of 1851. Therefore precedent, yes, but typical maybe not so much.

Holtzapffel.jpg

The weird thing is that, if they were not made by a lathe manufacturer, I would have said they were carving chisels. I suppose they could be a small set (size not number. I counted 63!) for turning pens. having said all that it looks as though I stand corrected.



Btw, that lathe was something else!

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

....... I then Googled images for Holtzapffel and it still only brought up that single set so I am thinking it was a one-off made for the great Exhibition of 1851. Therefore precedent, yes, but typical maybe not so much.....

Indeed, they are not typical Paul, but I have seen other sets with ivory handles, a bit less elaborate than the exhibition set so they were possibly made to order for those who could afford them. The lathe itself is a wondrous bit of kit as you've noted, and I seem to remember reading somewhere that the lathe itself was only made to order but I may have that wrong, it might have been the tool sets.

I've known about Holzapffel for a very long time - a lathe was featured in a very early FWW, but I have never seen one in the flesh. A few people have made their own versions, usually a bit less elaborate, but I'm pretty sure I saw a working replica made by someone years ago. That's well out of my league!

The tools are small - they don't have to be large for fine, small-diameter turning, I'm currently turning Christmas ornaments for the girls to sell at a charity stall and even my smallest tools are clumsy for the skinny finials! If I had more time (meaning if I had started sooner instead of procrastinating) I would've made myself a 1/8" skew to match the 1/8" gouge I made years ago for some similar project.

Ornaments.jpg

For the time that goes into the darn things (mostly 'cos I'm rusty & haven't done much turning these last few years), they are to be sold at bargain-basement prices......

Cheers,

Originally Posted by old workshop

Hi all,
These are the Ivory tool handles which all screw together and un-screw. ...

Dunny Handles.jpg

... I think the were to be used as handles for lathe chisels.

Are you sure that they are tool handles, Martin?

They look remarkably like the handle on the dunny chain at my late grandmothers place. A "T-fitting" went up the hole in the middle, and then the cap screwed on. She said hers were scrimshaw, rather than ivory, and "it felt much nicer than a porcelain handle". We all thought she should get an indoor toilet!

This is what the "T-fitting" looked like, except the loop at the top to attach to the chain eas much smaller.

T-Fitting.jpg"T-fitting", for want of a better name!

Hi,

I never thought of a pull flush chain handle.
They would have been an expensive chain handle.
The only reason I thought they were tool handles,
is that one of them had some left over wood in it.
Also it had a ferrule on it and some use marks on
the handle.


Martin.

Hi,
Here are some pics of the ornamentle-turned pieces of Brass and
Ivory. The Brass ones are done on both sides. Maybe he was practising.

Martin.IMG_20211123_105158.jpgIMG_20211123_105209.jpgIMG_20211123_101925.jpgIMG_20211123_101957.jpg

Being a Luddite and plain just not smart with computers I can’t link this.
There is a US site on Instagram where dudes play with engine lathes etc.
Dont ask me how I got there, probably accidentally clicked on something on another turning site
H.

Thanks Henry - I was wracking my fading brain yesterday trying to recall the generic name for the Holzapffel type machine, but your post jogged the neurons - "rose-engine lathe" is the term I was groping for...

As the article in Wikipedia says, they started out as toys for the idle rich, but did find commercial uses such as making background plates for printing bank notes, etc.

They seem to be rather addictive toys, so if you have a yen for ornamental turning, they are/were still available new.

Cheers,

Holy Moses. Bling on steroids.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Holy Moses. Bling on steroids.

Regards
Paul

Be very careful Paul,
I’ve know about “Those” lathes for about 20 years, honestly consider crack cocain it will be an easier addiction.

I’m just saying, you have been warned.

Cheers Matt.

Originally Posted by IanW

... "rose-engine lathe" is the term I was groping for...
...
They seem to be rather addictive toys, so if you have a yen for ornamental turning, they are/were still available new.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by BushMiller

... Holy Moses. Bling on steroids. ...

Originally Posted by Simplicity

... Be very careful Paul,

I’ve know about “Those” lathes for about 20 years, honestly consider crack cocain it will be an easier addiction. ...

But there is a cure.

Just look at their price list. Base price is ~AU$125,000 and "everything" is an extra. Fully equipped lathe could cost $250,000. Plus freight, customs, GST, insurance, etc. And too pretty to use!

Hi,

I did not realise they were that price,
I wonder what happened to the one my father
bought all those years ago. At least he kept
the chisels and the bits and pieces.

Martin.

Two tangents here:

1) The Lynn Woodworking Museum in Tinwald (immediately south of Ashburton), in Canterbury, NZ, that has a collection of Holzapffel lathes;

2) Wadkin used horn (African buffalo horn?) on the handles of some of their woodworking machines. Not quite ivory, but in a similar vein.

tilt2.jpg The damaged horn handle on my Wadkin PK dimension saw.

Cheers, Vann.

Originally Posted by Vann

....2) Wadkin used horn (African buffalo horn?) on the handles of some of their woodworking machines. Not quite ivory, but in a similar vein.....

Until man-made plastics took over completely by around mid last century, all sorts of handles & small objects were made from horn, as I'm sure you're aware. Some breeds of cattle sport pretty impressive sets of horns so there was probably a steady supply from slaughterhouses without attacking the wildlife, but buffalo horn was certainly used for some things, both for its size & no doubt for the cachet of having a product from an animal with such a fearsome reputation, though there were plenty of nice, placid, domesticated buffalo who would have (involuntarily) donated horn to the cause.

To add another tangent, ivory & horn are quite different structurally. Ivories (elephant, narwhal & walrus plus sub-fossil mastodont ivory), are essentially over-grown teeth & consist of dentine & enamel, both highly mineralised material laid down in a protein matrix, whereas horn is compressed keratin, the same stuff your skin (& fingernails) are made of - not as hard or as durable as ivory. Antler is very dense bone, similar to, but not quite the same as the stuff teeth are made of.

You really needed to know this........
Cheers,

Here's a link to the Lynn Woodworking museum in Ashburton. (My hometown)


Ornamental Turning Lathes, Bob Lynn and Hand Tools Paradise in New Zea – PiranhaTools