Thread: 'New' Tools

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

DW

I think you have nailed there exactly why HNT Gordon tools hold a special place in the hearts of Australian woodworkers.


John Hoffman is the third bloke. The name means nothing to me. Only the C Schwarz name is familiar. Perhaps that is his purpose.

Regards
Paul

And Colen Clenton and Chris Vesper ...

Chris stayed over with us last weekend, visiting from Melbourne for the Perth Wood Show. It cost him thousands to attend, plus time away from production is money lost from on-line sales, and he does not sell enough at a small show to recoup expenses. The time and skills that goes into his tools to obtain the level of perfection is often forgotten when someone compares one of his squares with a cheap, mass-produced, imported example. One lasts months and provides a lifetime of pleasure. The same may be said for Colen.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

And Colen Clenton and Chris Vesper ...

Agreed Derek. Very remiss of me to omit their names, although David's reference was specifically on planes. It does add more clout to my comment.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by rob streeper

The pictured holdfast shouldn't need roughening, it looks to be rough as a cob.

If they all look like that in the name of "grip", I personally wouldn't want it scuffing up my dog holes.

I read the blog post about that in its entirety this morning, the boasting about trying and keeping all manners of different hold fasts, it sort of reminds me of the way rob cosman comes out and says "I've found the secret to a good dovetail saw" (it won't make you any better at woodworking, but it's a starting pitch).

And then I see a casted holdfast that would be surprising if it cost less than the fabulous piece of industrial bent spring steel that tools for working wood makes. In a world where only non-malleable cast holdfasts and $125 forged holdfasts existed, maybe.

And then the assertion "i've got lots of secrets about using a holdfast that we will provide for free to customers and non-customers". Give me a break. We're not talking about the first person to design a successful double iron plane here, but things that anyone can figure out or read about anywhere in classic texts if they want. I guess thinking that stuff is ground breaking has a lot to do with teaching too many beginners who need to be shown which end of the blade to hold when they sharpen something.

I'd have hoped the hold fast was a bit of a ruse, it will turn out to be an outright spoof it if costs more than the indestructible hold fast that gramercy sells. I'd have more confidence in the operation if it was raney without schwarz. Though I'm sure that schwarz has had enough time to accumulate a fan club who will buy lots of things that will not improve their woodworking like thought and time at the bench would.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

And Colen Clenton and Chris Vesper ...

Chris stayed over with us last weekend, visiting from Melbourne for the Perth Wood Show. It cost him thousands to attend, plus time away from production is money lost from on-line sales, and he does not sell enough at a small show to recoup expenses. The time and skills that goes into his tools to obtain the level of perfection is often forgotten when someone compares one of his squares with a cheap, mass-produced, imported example. One lasts months and provides a lifetime of pleasure. The same may be said for Colen.

Regards from Perth

Derek

I would use the term for those types of tools as..."precious". The makers don't make a mint on the tools, but there are better options if just getting work done is the case.

I think Terry's work is a lot less precious and more utilitarian.

Certainly, if someone enjoys precious type tools to do all of their work, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Schwarz is good at marketing: rename something that already exists so it refers to one of his products then promote heavily. Personally I think that the marketing is better than the books are, but I'm not in his target market. It will be interesting to see how his relationship to the tool vendors changes when he is a competitor, and indeed how he competes with them.

"Precious"... As beautiful as they are the are built to be used. If they are not used they are art works or ornaments.

Originally Posted by kevjed

"Precious"... As beautiful as they are the are built to be used. If they are not used they are art works or ornaments.

Yes, I should clarify. I don't mean they are precious like jewelry or a doll (that would imply fragile). Precious meaning that there are core elements needed to do work, and then there are tools that are far far beyond that when something much less precise or dressy will do.

Precious is also what i would call poring over perfection on minor details, slightly different, but similar thought.

I am glad that tools of that level are made, though. Even if I quite often am not the buyer of them.

The holdfasts are apparently 1" and ductile iron.

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2016/10/01/crucible-holdfast-faq/

I can imagine that a 1" holdfast with such a rough surface would be a bit hard on the bench.

It looks like it's really hard on your wallet, too. $135 for a single cast holdfast. No thanks. I think I'd call peter ross instead and continue to use my own dogs and every other 3/4th inch accessory in the world.

And the dividers have to have a special fixture because someone who expects to do fine work somehow can't tap a rivet lightly on a joint of an inexpensive tool to tighten it? "Precious" tools so far.

I'm torn on my opinions, I think so highly of Raney Nelson and so poorly of Chris Schwartz.

I think they'll have no trouble selling tools, though, especially to people who don't use tools much. Bridge City does it with no trouble.

DW; do you remember this post from Schwartz. https://accidentalwoodworker.blogspo...ey-nelson.html

Stewie;

Originally Posted by planemaker

DW; do you remember this post from Schwartz. https://accidentalwoodworker.blogspo...ey-nelson.html

Stewie;

No, I don't read Chris's posts. I do remember seeing Raney post something about saying that he was alive, but I didn't know the background to it. Raney is 100% generous with accurate advice and eminently capable, i like to read what he writes, but I don't do it often enough.

Well that is very disappointing. I can only assume that they will bring out their own dogs and other accessories in 1" to force anyone who has modified their bench for these holdfasts to purchase from them.
What I have now works well. These holdfasts don't offer any advantage.
It looks to me like they have realised that they can't compete with Gramercy and LV so they make it non standard then make up a heap of reasons why these are better.

If Schwartz's new business venture does bomb out, he could always fake his own death to resurrect his popularity in the U.S.