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Thread: Are new tools expensive?
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15th December 2013, 09:06 AM #1well aged but not old
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Are new tools expensive?
It is sometimes said, sometimes by me, that new tools are expensive. Well I got to wondering and in the attached document I have compared the prices of a few different types of tools when they were new with the equivalent price today (after adjusting for the change in average weekly earnings.)
Tool price comparison.pdf
There are some issues with the methodology. I have used average weekly earnings to compare across the years. But that term can be understood to be a mean wage or a median wage and sometimes the sources are not clear about this and there can be a vast difference between the two. Also the prices are those I found in catalogues. I have no way of telling just how much they actually sold for in the stores.My age is still less than my number of posts
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15th December 2013, 10:42 AM #2GOLD MEMBER
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Thanks for the file, I've wondered about that from time to time. I have and use a few GrandDad tools.
I can't help but wonder how much technology has changed such things as metal alloys and electric motors.
In such instances, I might get more bang for my buck these days. How do you place a value on simple durability?
I can believe that manufacturing heat-treating ovens, etc are much better than they were. Maybe all that implies is more consistent batch runs, whether they get it right or not. Even a modern blacksmith has a better selection of steels to work with.
Other times, it's a disaster, a real crap shoot.
In my recent experience, a new $50 Stanley spokeshave is no match at all for a new $15 Samona. While the fit and finish of the Samona is downright crude, the performance dictated that I buy a second one (thick & thin work).
I can only conclude that Stanley forgot to harden/temper the blade.
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15th December 2013, 11:12 AM #3
Another way to look at it would be to use the CPI to see what the old price is worth in today's dollars. But you should also take into account the exchange rate at the time, as I'm assuming those are US prices. I expect there's enough complexity in the subject to fill a few doctoral dissertations, at least!
If they are US catalogues, the prices should be pretty good, as catalogues/mail order were a major sales channel in the US.
Consumer Price Index Inflation Calculator
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15th December 2013, 12:35 PM #4.
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Unfortunately it's a bit more complicated than a direct average wage/price/CPI comparison.
Since tools are non-essential items for hobby woodworkers we should be looking at discretionary income rather than all income - i.e. how much money is left over after paying tax and for essentials.
Since average discretionary income was proportionately much less in the past I suspect that this would cancel out the differences you calculated
One figure I remember was that there has been an ~12% increase in discretionary spending in the last 30 years and I suspect it would be at least the same for the half century before that.
The other interesting figure I found was that in 2103 (EDIT err . . . . 2013?], on average Aussies spend nearly as much on discretionary spending (holidays, entertainment, electronics. dining, gym memberships, pets etc) as they did on rent !
see Australians spend $960 a month on discretionary spending | News.com.au
When I think about the money wasted on some of this junk, especially the senseless turnover on consumer electronics, most likely to just to have the latest and greatest - and then have to listen to all the moaning and whinging about "the high cost of living" it makes my blood boil.
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15th December 2013, 01:07 PM #5
Just taking one item, a Stanley No 7 Jointer, and using the Measuring Worth - Relative Worth Calculators and Data Sets website..
If you want to compare the value of a $7.40 Commodity in 1923 there are four choices. In 2012 the relative:
real price of that commodity is $99.50
real value of that commodity is $206.00
labor value of that commodity is $335.00(using the unskilled wage) or $418.00(using production worker compensation)
income value of that commodity is $497.00
So the answer varies from $99.50 to $497... take your pick... I'm not sure I'd pay $497 for a stanley No7...
Regards
Ray
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15th December 2013, 08:12 PM #6
No. 7 Jointer Plane $425 USD
Cheers, Vann.Gatherer of rustyplanestools...
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15th December 2013, 09:58 PM #7Taking a break
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16th December 2013, 12:38 AM #8
Thinking about it some more, maybe charting the price of hand planes against the price of a major commodity component - such as iron - as well as the price of labour could be useful. Then you could see if price changes were more influenced by materials or wages cost, or if there was a big disconnect between them. Anyone got a 100 year time series of plane prices?
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16th December 2013, 04:56 AM #9
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16th December 2013, 11:02 AM #10.
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16th December 2013, 03:41 PM #11well aged but not old
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I am on holidays and that sound like a good idea. I am not sure how to locate the data but it must be available somewhere.
My impression (read unreliable) is that tools are more affordable and better quality than they were 30 years ago. When I first started looking for a thicknesser the main one was from Delta and it was $1000. Now you can get any number for much less than that and my wages have gone up substantially since then. Veritas sell top saws for less than $100. Narex make (and Veritas sell) good quality bevelled chisels for less than the price of a feed of fish and chips. My local markets have old Stanley planes for about $50 most days and with a bit of a clean up and a sharpen they work fine. Modern manufacturing should make it possible to more cheaply produce tools made to tight specifications. The internet makes the whole world one competitive market. I do not think that the table I produced gives an accurate indication of relative prices. I may be wrong but it seems to me that if I search the net and am prepared to wait then I can get really good tools at affordable prices. The good old days are mostly an illusion in my opinion. They were inhabited by the Great Depression and World Wars.My age is still less than my number of posts
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