Thread: A 'traditional' saw vise

That's just brilliant Ian. How i love seeing how old woodies went about every task, built their own tools etc.

Just a few quick questions
The bird mouth angle tho I imagine it's not really critical would around 5/10 degrees be enough.
Also the split to carry the blade would it not be better to end that in a small say 13 mm hole to stop any further splitting.
Yes I know you used a bolt
But if one was building from scratch.

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Just a few quick questions
The bird mouth angle tho I imagine it's not really critical would around 5/10 degrees be enough.
Also the split to carry the blade would it not be better to end that in a small say 13 mm hole to stop any further splitting.
Yes I know you used a bolt
But if one was building from scratch.

Matt, if you enlarge the sketch, you'll see the angle of the birdsmouth is shown, and it is indeed, approximately 10 degrees...

Good point about putting a round hole at the bottom of the V. In fact, that's exactly what I did, however, because you need to add a slot for the blade, it's value in preventing splitting is probably cancelled. I suspect the Tas oak/Vic Ash (whatever) I used was just a bit more splitty than the stuff my old pot selected, but in any case, a bolt is a very inexpensive item.....

Cheers,

Thanks Ian will enlarge the pics

Thanks, Ian. You may remember I've mentioned copying this design a couple of times, so it's good to have this thread as a resource.

There was, however, one thing about it I thought about modifying upon first inspection. You mentioned the bolts being installed after building it to prevent it splitting further. It seems like it's only a matter of time before splitting occurs, given that it's a wedged fit, so do you think it would make sense to just go ahead and drill holes and glue in dowels during the build? Maybe two per side? Would this achieve the same kind of split prevention with a bit cleaner aesthetic? If not, could you make a recommendation?

Cheers,
Luke

Ian

In the distant past I made a vice similar to yours except it was he traditional freestanding affair. I remember that the jaws were both deeper and narrower. They may have been 75 x 25. My memory again is that there was no need to cut a slot in the legs to accommodate the saw plate. It occurs to me that the deeper the jaws are made the less likely it is the legs will need to be cut with a slot.

A further thought is that this style of saw vice is clamped at either end. To what extent do you think it would be beneficial to plane the ends of the jaws on the inside at both ends? Only a little. Perhaps 1mm. This would ensure that the middle of the jaws are tight on the saw plate. The sloped lapped joint on the legs automatically tightens the ends as intended.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Luke Maddux

.... It seems like it's only a matter of time before splitting occurs, given that it's a wedged fit, so do you think it would make sense to just go ahead and drill holes and glue in dowels during the build? Maybe two per side? Would this achieve the same kind of split prevention with a bit cleaner aesthetic? If not, could you make a recommendation?....

Luke, my way would be to make the vise & see how it goes. You may not have a problem, it will depend on the wood you select for the stiles. There were thousands of these built, and most seem to have lasted pretty well, which is why I put my problem down to poor selection of wood. If you do have to dowel as a remedy, it won't make much difference if you put them in before or after signs of trouble arise. I know you prefer a 'wooden' solution, but the bolt was very easy, very quick & is very effective....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

....A further thought is that this style of saw vice is clamped at either end. To what extent do you think it would be beneficial to plane the ends of the jaws on the inside at both ends? Only a little. Perhaps 1mm. This would ensure that the middle of the jaws are tight on the saw plate. The sloped lapped joint on the legs automatically tightens the ends as intended....

Paul, that's exackery what I done. I should've been more specific, instead of saying " a bit of judicious planing might be needed...".

So my apologies to all; anyone making the vise, please substitute Paul's more detailed instructions for my more flippant line.....

Cheers,

I had one of those, "Where have I seen that before moments". For some reason, I knew it was
In an Australian book, but could I find it? So ubiquitous was this style of saw vice that most of the Aussie writers of the hand tool era didn't mention how to make one. Alex Smith John Walton and C H Lloyd show the small metal ones when they mention a saw vice, but the Department of Labour's Carpentry and Joinery, which was aimed at demobbed servicemen after WW II who would likely be on worksites, shows the saw being filed in a wooden vice of this kind but makes no mention of how the vice was made - presumably they thought one of the old hands would show you how .
In the end I found it in Andrew Waugh's The Handyman's Complete Carpentry Guide. He was 'Handy Andy' in the Sydney Telegraph and he bothered to put in a page on making a saw vice. I'll try to scan the page or so tomorrow and post the scan so you can all see his take on this unsung hero of the Aussie worksite.


Screwing up in new ways every day

Good on yer, Jeremy. I searched for some more detailed instructions, too, just in case there was some vital detail that has eluded me, but came up blank. I'm sure I've seen it somewhere on the web in the past, but the search engines seem to have forgotten about it. All I could find were the more elaborate scissor-type vises like the one on the Popular Woodworking site. They probably work just as well, but I like the no-frills variety.

As you say, this type of on-site saw vise was so common up 'til the 50's that it would be a fair assumption that everyone in the business knew how to cobble one together. They are very simple gadgets, and nothing about them is super-critical - you adjust accordingly as you fit the parts together. Despite being made with nothing more than my vague memory for a plan, mine works.....

Cheers,

Hi Ian

Here it is. It isn't quite the same as yours, but who would expect it to be?

Another project added to the list (because I don't like the small metal vice for handsaws (as opposed to back saws).

That's good, Jeremy - just about exactly how my dad made his! I managed to cut out the saw vise part and make it a full page that is quite legible, & I've saved it for future use. Thanks for taking the trouble to do that.

It's not a huge project, and anyone should be able to get one going in a morning (after you find the bits of wood you need!). Something I notice is that Handy-Andy makes his 'birdmouths' at a much steeper angle than I made mine. Thinking about it, I reckon that's smart, it will develop less pressure towards the outside when the jaws are tapped in, and will reduce the tendency to split the stiles. I was working from memory for the angle, and I reasoned that the shallower the angle, the better it would grip (as with Morse taper, etc.). That's true, but it also develops more force and increases the chances of splitting. I did remember that the Old Pot made his from 3 inch wide boards (as in the Handy-Andy article), but I wanted to include the 'step' on my stiles so it would sit at a fixed height in the bench vise, so used wider material for those.

So, any prospective makers take note, and disregard my too-steep birdmouth - go with the more shallow angle as shown...

Cheers,

I decided that a good quick project for the Chrissy break was to make one of these according to the description in Andrew Waugh's book.

So here it is.
IMG_0136.jpgIMG_0137.jpg
I used a couple of pieces of Oregon that I had lying about.

The best thing is that I can take this outside an clamp it to a sawhorse. That keeps saw filings off the workbench and usually means there is better light which my aging eyes seem to need!

The second best thing is that the wooden vice dampens the filing noise - the metal saw vice seems to amplify the sound, so this is easier on everyone's ears!

Some photos found on goggle which may assist some people.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=saw+sharpening+vise