Thread: Using the Disston 77 style saw.

Martin, I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts after a month or two of steady use.

I put the 45* fleam on a (non-tapered saw) just for fun as a bit of an experiment after having had a 77 in my hands for a while. It did cut nicely, and did not bind even though the blade was not tapered, and left a very clean surface, but it lost sharpness very quickly compared to a saw sharpened with regular rake & fleam, and as soon as it became just a little dull, it would bind.

It was also very sensitive to moisture - unless the wood was quite 'dry' I'd get binding very smartly. Disston freely acknowledged this - a quote from their own literature: "in sharpening, care must be taken to file the teeth at the same angle as they are when they leave the factory. Use a 4½-inch regular taper file for the No. 77 Saw. These Saws are warranted to run without set in dry, seasoned lumber only, and are not for general use."

That was no idle statement. In the end I decided the disadvantages outweighed any advantages & restored the teeth to a 'regular' 15 or 20 fleam angle, with set.

I sometimes wonder if I should have persisted a bit longer with it all. I put the rapid dulling down to using a 'soft' plate plus the wood I was sawing (stuff like she-oak & gidgee that are not kind to any cutting edges); the 77 has a very hard plate, as noted, so hard you will break any tooth if you try to set it. If I ever find an old saw with hardness in the upper, file-eating range (I've had a couple brought to me for sharpening that were as hard as the single 77 I've tackled), I might revisit the 'extreme fleam, no-set' concept...
(Maybe )
Cheers,
Ian

PS: Nice-looking saw, btw.

Nice work Martin.

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That's a nice looking saw. Did you post the making somewhere? I might have overlooked that. It looks a little like you made it from some other saw with that hole at the toe. Can that be?

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Ian,
Durability should be ok. The filing & taper is in retrospect the same "similar" arborist Pruning saws/ Japanese Katana saws. They have steeper teeth from the rombus file but has a similar fleam. I imagine arborist would be unimpressed with a fast blunting saw while working on the back paddock.
If I did notice a durability issue, may take a tip from their tips and file the tip of the tips, so the tip has better back support. Well there you go, bet you didn't know it was possible to use the word tip 5x in a short sentence.

Currently I use the saw when I after a clean accurate finish start of the saw, to avoid chisel work/ planing. Pretty accurate with this saw and unsurprisingly the handle a very good fit my hand. Perhaps give how I use the saw a smaller version would be appropriate.

Something like the rusty Disston that was just on the forums for $10 then margin down( to save $ for a coffee) with broken handle on the cheap would be a good doner for the saw plate, as that provide the desirable taper.

Also - I not sure about disston warning - the arborists are obviously working on "green timber". IMO it practical warning, the saw is intended for clean final finish. Green timber will do what green timber does to ensure that cuts not the final finish.

Recap
The 10 Tpi provides a smooth finish with no set. particularly in hardwoods- My first filing of the this type of saw (which was pretty wobbly) was higher Tpi but these saws are not very aggressive.

Thanks MA, the saw is a bit crude in places- tapered the blade on crude setup and the surface is not as smooth as I would ideally like, but ended up with a useful saw.

"That's a nice looking saw. Did you post the making somewhere? I might have overlooked that. It looks a little like you made it from some other saw with that hole at the toe. Can that be?"



There's longish thread somewhere with 2 saw enthusiasts that includes making this saw or the plate of it and investigations in filing. This saw was tad tricky to file as the fleam for piston 77 ist 45 degrees and that was combined with my saw filing experience (zero).

The doner was a Trojan saw. A most undistinguished saw I must say- handle sort of waved at the end like a fish tail.

The thread on the making of the saw is here.

Cheers,

Unfortunately most of the info on making the saws plate is here- the thread travelled on a tangent..Saw file guide.

Originally Posted by MartinCH

Unfortunately most of the info on making the saws plate is here- the thread travelled on a tangent..Saw file guide.

One of the problems with threads! I'm supposed to try & steer things on the right path, but I'm all too often one of the main offenders.

Sometimes the side-tracks are more interesting than the main road, but it does complicate searching for something you may have seen a month or year or decade ago....

Cheers,

It a challenge stopping meandering.
There is pertinent comments prior. The thread where the picture of the saw was put up is missing key comments, such as the indexing handsaw, and the crude surfacing setup. For context the saw would be better in the merandering thread.

I have only read one long thread - the Simond Saw Story. There are some gems in that thread - sometimes even Disston saws, but lots of tangents two. When I see a Simonds saw, I have occasionally dug again through that thread to see if is a "special model"

day Paul should right a book, he has really neat style.

Originally Posted by MartinCH

It a challenge stopping meandering.......

Too true, and some posters don't mind where a thread goes, but (understandably), some get a bit annoyed if their thread gets completely hijacked, so I do try to gently nudge things back if I think it's appropriate.

There are plenty of nuggets thrown up in side-tracks, but the problem is that they can be hard to find later. If you are very good with searches & hit on the right terms you can often find what you seek, but sometimes I draw a blank, which can be frustrating. That's the main reason I sometimes suggest starting a new thread so that valuable/useful info will be easier to find later.

Tangents will always occur, I couldn't stop them even if I tried (& I'd probably get death-threats if I did!), so we muddle along as best we can....

Cheers,

...and we are off on a tangent.. [emoji3]

Oh, the irony....

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I do love a good digression.

Regards
Paul

"for godsake, stop laughing, this is serious"

Update on Disston 77 usage

Modified my bench hooks ( the groove was way to wide) with timber inserts timber grain parallel to saw cut, Made the groove to suit the Disston 77 no set saw. So far so good. Without no set the saw is not widening the groove. The Bench hook is remaining very accurate and the cut edges are supported by timber, reducing tearout.

Not the fastest saw I have but with the acuracy this has become a great option for small parts.
Saw still odd to use as smooth and quiet and I still sometime pull the saw up to check it is cutting.

Can cut some very narrow slices, for fine tuning. Nice that the offcuts do not get free admission to launch control.



Regards