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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Hobart, Tas
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    501

    Default Using a plough plane against the grain

    This is a question for those of you who use a plough plane as a standard part of your construction process.

    I am vascelating over purchasing Veritas' small plough plane, which as far as I am aware cannot have the fence swapped to the other side. This will them necessitate ploughing against the grain on some pieces of work.

    Have you encountered issues? I can imagine that in something like pine, scoring the timber with a knife first may help, I can't see it helping with a splinterey timber such as Tasmanian Blackwood.

    So, if you're a plough plane user, please share your experiences creating grooves and rebates against the grain.

    Many thanks,
    Lance

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    8,991

    Default

    Easy Peasy, Lance

    I have posted on this before: to plane against the grain, especially interlocked wood where tearout is threatening, first knife in the sidewalls, then add a small 15 degree back bevel to the blade. This creates a 60 degree cutting angle (as the bed is typically 45 degrees, such as on the Veritas Small Plow and the Combination Plane). A high cutting angle, especially with a lighter cut, will leave a clean finish.

    I demoed using this technique with beading blades here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...dingPlane.html



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Bundaberg
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    Default

    Knifing the lines works for me in hardwoods such as red gum, I just take care to make them accurate and vertical. I also first chop out the far end with a chisel so I donít get blow out or spelching as the blade leave the wood.
    A thief stole my anti-depressants. I hope heís happy now.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Hobart, Tas
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    Default

    Thanks chaps!

    Derek, knowing your very comprehensive reviews, I did look at your review of the plane first, but somehow missed that article. Thanks for the pointer in the right direction.

    I have been searching and reading over the past few days but simply couldn't find anything related to going against the grain. I was reluctant to start a new thread asking a question that had surely been asked and answered multiple times. None the less, asked and well answered within a couple of hours. What a privilege to have such access to those further along the woodworking journey.

    Kind regards
    Lance

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Australia
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    Default

    Crikey; using a back bevel to control tear out. What a novel idea. !!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LanceC View Post
    Thanks chaps!

    Derek, knowing your very comprehensive reviews, I did look at your review of the plane first, but somehow missed that article. Thanks for the pointer in the right direction.

    I have been searching and reading over the past few days but simply couldn't find anything related to going against the grain. I was reluctant to start a new thread asking a question that had surely been asked and answered multiple times. None the less, asked and well answered within a couple of hours. What a privilege to have such access to those further along the woodworking journey.

    Kind regards
    Lance
    Lance, it is interesting that back bevels have been around a long, long time yet, when I posted that article, I had not come across a single reference to using them with plough planes (regardless of blade type). What you find in the literature are comments such as "make sure you use straight-grained wood". Planes such as the Stanley #45 became high risk users in interlocked woods (such as we have in Oz). Stewie's comment - although meant to be snarky - is, however, actually true. That is, it should not be a revelation that a high cutting angle works. The only plane maker I know that thinks this way is Terry Gordon (HNT Gordon). This recognition now opens up a whole range of possibilities and opportunities .... just add a back bevel to moulding planes and plough planes, and go for it! I still dislike a BB on a bench plane, however.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Hobart, Tas
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    Default Using a plough plane against the grain

    Thanks Derek. There has been a bit about back bevels in threads over the last couple of months. I just didnít transfer that notion to a router plane against the grain.

    My thought process that led to the concerns was more with larger tearing/chipping on the corners/edges of the groove. A recent project with Blackwood was terrible in this respect using a power router.

    Most ploughing and rebate operations that I was contemplating using the plane for, would have the tear out hidden anyway. My hope was for crisp corners/edges that donít have timber stakes ripped out, which are perfectly suited to dispatching vampires.

    Your and Cliffís responses have me reasonably satisfied however.

    Stewie, everything is obvious to those it is obvious too. For the rest of us... we need to ask

    Kind regards,
    Lance

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LanceC View Post
    Thanks Derek. There has been a bit about back bevels in threads over the last couple of months. I just didnít transfer that notion to a router plane against the grain....
    Hi Lance

    That is likely a misprint, but just in case you want to use a router plane against the grain ...

    Many years ago I made a scraper blade for my router plane. It is simply a hex/allen key ground to shape ...



    It's finished a little better here. Works really well.



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  9. #9
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    Mar 2008
    Location
    Hobart, Tas
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    Default

    Whoops, yes I woke up unexpectedly early this morning and my brain has already switched to power saving mode. But ohh, Iíll file this one away! Very neat idea. I only recently got my router plane, and have been thoroughly enjoying it on my last couple of projects.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Brisbane (western suburbs)
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    I guess there are situations where you may wish to control tear-out in a trench, but in the vast majority of cases, the bottom doesn't matter, in fact more often than not you plough them deeper than necessary for clearance, so I'd be reluctant to put back-bevels on a plough blade in most cases - I don't like giving myself unnecessary work. It's the sides you usually need to worry about, as they generally have to fit snugly, in which case, knifing the edges, as Derek has said, usually helps a lot. Sometimes that doesn't work either, in very nasty wood, so (sshhh), I either go & get the electron-burner, or start on another, more cooperative bit of wood!

    Cheers,
    IW

  11. #11
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    Mar 2008
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    Hobart, Tas
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    Default

    Thanks for your thought Ian. I think the knifing of edges will be my first port of call as you have all suggested that, and see how I travel from there.

    Kind regards,
    Lance

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