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  1. #1
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    Default Veritas Adjuster and blade for Bevel-Up Plane - Type "A"

    Hi fellow chums,

    I managed to snavvel myself a sad old second hand Veritas Bevel-Up Smoother Plane but it was missing a few things.

    The picture shows it needs some work. I'm in need of an adjuster and blade. The unpictured lever-cap and lever-knob was located in a bottom dusty drawer after 2 hours of digging.

    --Perhaps someone has upgraded their plane to the Norris Style slow adjuster and now has unused original adjuster in a drawer? Perhaps I can prise it from your grasp?
    --A 50 blade of similar en-drawer-sittingness? (its the 2-1/4" wide blade)

    Beggars can't be choosers, so steel type can't be readily chosen

    If anyone has a lead, or feels merciful, or can offer a decent price on these two parts to a decent chap I'd be forever appreciative

    Veritas Bevel-Up Smoother Plane 55.jpg

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  3. #2
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    Default a bit of spit and polish.....

    Here are some pix after a bit of a cleanup.

    800 then 1200 grit papers. Nice! Haven't added any shellac to the handles et, will do when I get it from the storage/warehouse.

    I wrote to Lee Valley and Shannon has offered to dredge up a Norris adjuster. I'd be keen to see how it goes!

    I'm still deciding on what blade to buy... 38 or 50. LV sell the plane with a 38 O2 blade, but I'm thinking a 50 PM-V11.... not that I know much about this kind of thing really.

    Trouble is, everywhere is out of stock! Must be a world-wide run on sales for some reason.....

    IMG_20191210_215557.jpg IMG_20191210_215539.jpg IMG_20191210_215620.jpg IMG_20191210_215634.jpg

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    Default

    Hi Evan

    No parts, but I can give you some advice.

    Do not purchase 38- or 50 degree blades. Only get 25 degree blades. Then add the 50 degrees with a secondary microbevel.

    The reason is that you cannot camber a 50 degree bevel on the full. There is too much steel to remove. On the other hand, if you add a 50 degree secondary bevel, with camber, to the 25 degree primary bevel, this becomes an easy task. All smoothers need a fine camber to prevent track marks.

    10 years ago I wrote this: The secret to cambering Bevel Up plane blades

    Does this look like your plane? ....



    My modification

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  5. #4
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    Default

    As always, an endless font of planular wisdom.

    You've just saved me pain and $80.

    Yay! Thank you.

    Edit - yes it does look like mine, but you've taken off the silly "wings" on the side. Perhaps they were added to stop the body from cracking or to add some width to it? Unsure. But they sure do stop one from using it as a shooting plane

    Ah yes, and the shiny top rails. Very fancy. One must feel like wearing a monocle while using it

  6. #5
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    Default

    Ive decided to buy a 25 PM-V11 blade, plus two slow-speed Type A Norris adjusters.

    One to fit into the smoother and another to go into the Low Angle Smoothing plane, which is probably entirely redundant now Ive all the others.

    (am I an addict now????).


    Rather than buy a huge and expensive jointer, one of these "wood plane" kits might be nice. I could make a monster jointer out of a hunk of gum!

    05P4063-veritas-2-1-4-inch-wooden-bench-plane-hardware-kit-pm-v11-blade-f-04.jpg


    Im moving this thread to HANDTOOLS as this WANTED thing is now irrelevant

  7. #6
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    Default

    I'm going to have to work out what the friggin difference is between the two Veritas planes: Low Angle Smoothing and the Bevel-Up Smoother

    Other that a slightly wider body in the BUS, they look and feel identical....


    Tell you what, I'm so confused with all the bevel up, low angle terminology, various plane angles (what to use, what to camber) and mouth sizing ideals... I'm.... so. Confused.

    I found this but ... still... confused. (Derek, you come up in DuckDuckGo with alarming frequency!) The Lee Valley - Veritas Low Angle Smoothing Plane

    I must be daft.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    Brisbane (western suburbs)
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    .....Rather than buy a huge and expensive jointer, one of these "wood plane" kits might be nice. I could make a monster jointer out of a hunk of gum! .....
    You could indeed. I reckon the Veritas kits are pretty good value for money, and far & away the most economical option for a kit with a screw adjuster included. However, they do have some limitations I think you need to be aware of. These arise from the fact that they are made up from parts designed for low-angle planes, & flipping the blade over & standing it up at 45* creates a minor problem. The blade and adjuster are both quite short, and the height of the woodwork behind the blade bed is critical - you have little to no room for error. I haven't had any experience with the larger bladed kit, but I suspect it will have the same issues as the 'small' kit. You have to have a blade bed that is long enough to fit the pivot-nut of the adjuster, but short enough it won't foul the thumbscrew of the adjuster shaft as the blade wears down. I guess it's not a big deal with a jointer - you can still have a handle/tote because you can place it back a bit, out of the way of the adjuster, but the only way you could fit a tote on a smaller plane would be to chop a big chunk out of it to clear the thumbscrew.

    My other issue with the (small) kit was the thumbscrew provided for the lever-wedge is pitifully short - you have to use a rather thin wedge, or the screw won't be long enough. I blathered on a bit about this in a post where I chucked the wedge & bar arrangement off the smoother I made originally from a kit, and made a lever-cap instead. For some reason I can't explain, I just don't get on with bar wedge-retainers, every plane I ever made with this system was a lemon. I'm sure it's a character defect, probably due to the fact I just like the look of a nicely-shaped brass LC?


    Cheers,
    IW

  9. #8
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    Default

    Thanks Ian, thats now added to the reading list.

    I'm definitely catching the bug!

    Derek, am I allowed to point out that one of your magnificent articles has a dud link? The Lee Valley - Veritas Low Angle Smoothing Plane has a link pointing off to another site that promised me a detailed run-down of the LAS vs BUJ.... but she be dead

    edit - attached is a capture of all the images and text into one PDF file from a cache in 12 April 2006. I am a devil hacker!!!

    I was totally into that review! Nice!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #9
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    Default

    3AM !!!

    Just finished reading and taking notes of ALL of Dereks thinkings on planes, angles, mouth sizes, comparisons, etc, etc, etc.

    WOW. What a resource.

    That PDF is excellent. The website is excellent. The clarity of thought and critical evaluation is excellent.

    I fear, tomorrow, that my LV cart is going to be a bit more full by lunch-times end! Woe is my bank balance! (Sorry kids, its coal for Christmas!)

    Peace!

  11. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    Here are some pix after a bit of a cleanup.

    I wrote to Lee Valley and Shannon has offered to dredge up a Norris adjuster. I'd be keen to see how it goes!

    IMG_20191210_215539.jpg IMG_20191210_215620.jpg
    Hi Evan
    you have a Bevel-up smoother

    comparing the two planes

    Bevel up smoother
    weight (4 lb 14 oz)
    coffin-shaped body, with a 10" 3 1/8" sole,

    Low angle smoother
    cast-iron body is 10" 2 1/2". BUS is more massive
    Weight just over 3 1/2 lb. (almost 1 -1/2 lbs lighter than the BUS)

    regards from Canada

    ian

  12. #11
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    Nov 2005
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    Darkest NSW
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    Default

    Hi Evan,

    If I remember correctly, the low angle smoother came out first - it was one of the very early BU models, and in fact the first decent quality plane I ever owned. Later they brought out the (heavier/wider) bevel up smoother; the appeal of this to me was that it shared the same blade as their BU jack and BU jointer. Accordingly I sold my low angle smoother and replaced it with a bevel up smoother plus a couple of extra blades. Since I also have a bevel up jack, the same blades can be used in both. I never did get the BU jointer to complete the set (got a cheaper WoodRiver instead)......couldn't justify the Veritas price for the limited amount I use a huge jointer.

    Deferring to Derek for some "family photos";

    The Veritas (Lee Valley) Bevel Up Jointer

    Cheers

  13. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    I'm going to have to work out what the friggin difference is between the two Veritas planes: Low Angle Smoothing and the Bevel-Up Smoother

    Other that a slightly wider body in the BUS, they look and feel identical.....
    Hopefully Derek will confirm this as my knowledge of the specific Veritas planes is zero, but the following general principle should still apply.

    The difference is in the bedding angles: the BUS will be around 20 degrees; with a 25 degree grind on the iron it gives you an effective cutting angle of 45 degrees (same as a normal common pitch bench plane). The LOS will have a bed angle of around 12-1/2 degrees; the same iron now gives a sharper cutting angle of 37-1/2 degrees.

    Same principle as applies to the old Stanley 9-1/2 and 60-1/2 block planes; they are both bevel up but have different bed angles.

    The reason for having BU planes is so that the cutting angle can be adjusted on the grinder. On a bevel down plane the cutting angle is fixed to that of the frog; changing the grind on the iron only changes the clearance angle.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  14. #13
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    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    Default

    The bedding of all BU bench planes available worldwide (with two exceptions) is 12 degrees. Veritas, Lie Nielsen, (new) Stanley, WoodRiver, and the original Stanley #62 and #164 ... all 12 degree beds.

    The two exceptions are the Holtey #98, which is 20 degrees ...



    ... and the Marcou S15 (15 degrees - mine below) and S20 (20 degrees) ...



    Basically this means that all require a high bevel angle, generally 50 degrees, for a high cutting angle (this would create 62 degrees).

    About 10 years ago, I built a BU infill smoother, using the shell of a Stanley #3, with a 25 degree bed. This was an an experiment in bed angles involving reducing the wear bevel, but also because I wanted a BU plane where I could free hand hone camber a 35 degree blade (25 degree bed + 35 degree bevel = 60 degree cutting angle). The result was one of the sweetest smoothers I have ever used.



    The Veritas BUS is a superior smoother. The main difference between it and the Low Angle Smoother (LAS) is not just that it is a little larger, but that it is intended as a dedicated smoother. The LAS is a jack of all trades (can be used on a shooting board as well). I kept the BUS and sold the LAS.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  15. #14
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    Default

    Ah, thanks for correcting me. I (wrongly) assumed BU bench plane angles were the same as a standard block plane and LA planes followed the lower LA block planes.
    Nothing succeeds like a budgie without a beak.

  16. #15
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    Default

    Just finished reading this The secret to cambering Bevel Up plane blades

    My head hurts now

    Cambering. Angles. Radii.... So much to learn.

    Derek, thanks for the forceful wisdom for buying only 25 blades and adding the appropriate microbevel. I've modified my cart to grab only these.


    .... now! Onto THIS article! The Veritas (Lee Valley) Bevel Up Jointer

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