Thread: Veritas Honing Guide Help

I still manage to do that all the time! Really even downwards pressure is required across the width of the iron, and it helps if you make sure your [thumbs, or whatever you use to drive the jig forwards] are also equidistant from the centre, and also equal pressure. I think it's actually quite difficult at first as you get very little feedback as the jig is so chunky and solid, but you improve (marginally, in my case). The other big thing is equal clamping pressure, I count how many turns of the screw are visible between the clamping plates; if they're not parallel, skewy edges may ensue... There are many sharpening experts on here both more learned and lucid than myself, but hope that helped

So ... (1) I'm no expert. (2) I'm sure you'll get answers, but there is also a Sharpening section.
(3) This is not necessarily the solution for you, but ...

If you ground the end of your iron square ... say by rubbing it vertically on an old grind wheel or a diamond plate or whatever ... or by using a power or hand grinder ... then you would create a small 'wall' of metal across the end of the iron. If you then go back and sharpen as you were, but frequently checking, you can monitor the thickness of the 'wall' section as it gradually reduces to just a half a hair, and then nothing.
I also feel along the (non-bevel) face of the iron as I go. You can only raise a wire-edge (on the face) where the 'wall' has been reduced to zero height. So when the 'wall' has just disappeared, and you have a slight wire-edge all along the face side of the edge, then you should be sharp and square - at that grit at least.

However, I don't have the Veritas guide, so there's probably better info out there for your particular case.

Cheers,
Paul

(I guess this assumes your sharpening media is properly flat across.)

I only have problems with narrow blades (especially bevelled chisels) moving out of square. due to the tiny gripping surface. On something wide like a plane iron, moving should not occur if clamped evenly and firmly (finger tight).

Originally Posted by Needles

The other big thing is equal clamping pressure, I count how many turns of the screw are visible between the clamping plates

With a felt tip marker, I put a mark across the top and down one edge of the two brass nuts (clamp them tightish, with no blade inserted, and mark at 6 o'clock). It wears off after a while and I need a more permanent mark.... Anyway I then open the clamp one full turn at each end until I can fit the blade through (about 4 turns for your average plane iron).

If that's not the problem, maybe your plane is machined slightly skew and the iron has been skewed to match - and you're trying to true it?

If that's not the problem either, maybe you have a crook honing guide? But I think you said you checked it for square?

Ahh, IIRC I think I've heard of one where the roller mechanism was out. While one end was at, say 3 o'clock, the other was only part way to 3 o'clock. That would probably skew the blade... It was a manufacturing/QC problem - very rare for LV, and if that's the case with yours, you'll have no problems getting it fixed/replaced.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

Pay attention to getting the clamping pressure dead even and don't go all King Kong when you're sharpening, it'll be fine.

I just posted something similar on another forum. It is more than you may want, but it is too much effort to edit on my iPad, so below is a copy of the whole enchilada

I promised myself that I would stay out of sharpening discussions, especially those that involve a honing guide. OK, so I cannot. There is something masochistic about this whole situation. Here's the pain ...

My preference is to freehand sharpen, but I am not going to try and convince you to do that - although I will argue that once you can do so you will get better results from your honing guides (yes, in the plural - I have several: LV mk1, LV mk II, Kell #1, a couple of genuine Eclipses, Sharp Skate .... but I do advocate using your hands instead).

Firstly, I could dispute that the LV mkII is a "top clamping" guide. Instead it should be called a "back referencing" guide, and in terms of accuracy of bevel angle this is the correct way to go. It is also an important point of emphasis. Why? Simply because a bevel angle is referenced off the back of the blade. When Tormek changed their blade holder on the latest version of the machine, their design became the same as the LV. This makes it easier to set up a blade at the correct angle.

Secondly, it is important to recognize that blades may not be perfect - some are not even in thickness, some do not have parallel sides, and some have less-than-flat backs. A blade that is not even in thickness will be unreliable when sharpening. A blade that does not have parallel sides with be unreliable in both back referencing and side referencing guides. A blade with a bend will struggle in a side referencing guide.

The beauty of a back referencing guide is that it does just that - references against the back of the blade. Seating it against the back requires some care when setting up. It is not much effort, but you get out what you put in. As others have noted, the tension placed by the knobs affects how it is seated. A good demonstration of how you should go about this is on a Tormek Youtube video where they go about sharpening a lane blade (similar principle to LV): Sharpening Plane Irons the Tormek Way

Get the spacing as even as possible from the start. There is then not much tightening of the knobs to do. In short, even pressure does it.

Then test the set up after a stroke on the sharpening medium. Re-adjust the tension if needed.

This type of guide is sensitive to blades with a high point on the back and, because they want to pivot, may not be able to tighten them down.

Please note that a correct set up may still produce a skewed bevel. In this case you must check the blade to see if it is parallel in thickness. And if the blade is out-of-paralle, realise that the bevel is actually square! It is the front of the blade that is out-of-square. There will be nothing you can do about that outside of lapping the blade to parallel, which is silly if it does not affect how it is used.

If you expect a guide to do all this automatically, dream on. If you do not believe in the care it takes to set up a guide, perhaps you are not suited for handtools. Try a CNC machine.

You can add camber without a curved roller, although the curved roller makes this easier. This is achieved by the pressure you apply at the corners of the blade. I write this to emphasise that the way you hold the blade/guide and apply downforce affects the bevel you create. In other words, before you blame the guide (ANY guide), look at your own technique first. This is the lesson taught by freehand sharpening. Indeed, I would say that the best training to use a guide is to learn to freehand first! Yes, I know, that sounds backwards to me as well.

The LV II is best thought of as a System Tool. There seems to be an inverse proportion between simplicity/complexity of set up and range of use. The LV II and the Side Skate are the only guides that manage skewed blades. The LV I can also hold skewed blades. The built in angle setter/protractor is where the LV II scores over everything comparable. It is compact, easy to adjust, and accurate. You can make set up blocks for it in the same manner as an Eclipse, but that is a large and cumbersome system if you try and include all the options that the LV angle setter offers. Hey, I have set up blocks for my Eclipse. This idea has been around for many decades. It works well. I am not knocking it or the Eclipse - just stating a fact.

At the end of the day I prefer the quickness of freehand sharpening on a hollow grind. The quickness of an Eclipse is preferred over the apparent slowness of the LV. Try using the LV with a set up block. It is then just as quick, and for some basic angles it may help speed things up. The angle setter is still there for skews, backbevels, higher or lower angles, etc.

Regards from Perth (currently visiting Cape Town)

Derek

Rolling a perfect cigarette by hand is one of the easiest things to do. If there was a forum for cig rolling, it could very quickly become one of the most complicated activities known to man or woman.

Originally Posted by Ball Peen

Rolling a perfect cigarette by hand is one of the easiest things to do. If there was a forum for cig rolling, it could very quickly become one of the most complicated activities known to man or woman.

Sooooooo, what are you saying sharpening isn't really that complicated it just sounds that way.

I'll have to give rolling a ciggy one handed a go though. That sounds much more fun

Cheers

Steve

Originally Posted by fineboxes

Sooooooo, what are you saying sharpening isn't really that complicated it just sounds that way.

I'll have to give rolling a ciggy one handed a go though. That sounds much more fun

Cheers

Steve

Exactly, try and describe how to tie a shoelace with one hand. Easier to do than say.

I've found that using the veritas guide with the sharp edge of the blade pointing back towards you it is easier to use as you can apply pressure evenly using both thumbs.

That becomes progressively more important as the honing angle increases.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by jrock_au

I've found that using the veritas guide with the sharp edge of the blade pointing back towards you it is easier to use as you can apply pressure evenly using both thumbs.

I've found the same still if you don't check it often you will tend to pressure more on one side unknowingly.

I've been through Dereks answer and as complex as it sounds, it's essentially what I do when using this guide. Never realised just how complex this process was! So, I suggest to you what was suggested to me ...

Get thee to a Master who will enlighten you with the black arts!!! Youtube may help, but having someone show you who knows what their doing will make it a lot easier.

Another thought though, check the sides of the blade are parallel. I've got Carters, Falcon Popes and a Turner (somewhere) and these can be surprisingly and (frustratingly!) out of whack!

Good Luck!

OG.

I have a blade that's tapered slightly. The bevel end is a little wider and it gave me fits trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. Is it tightened evenly blah blah then I realized it tapered and I couldn't use the guide to make the blade square with the wheel.
So in a round about way I'm saying measure your blade width from one end to the other.

Cheers
Mark from Iowa

Thanks all for the help. I have realised that the blade on the Turner does have a slight taper & I was not putting even pressure on it. I have now got it to a reasonable state. I recently discovered that someone I have worked with for nearly 20 years does the odd bit of woodwork & has offered to use his Tormek to sharpen all my old Berg chisels & plane blades, thanks Fletty