Thread: What would I keep.

We're a funny lot, we hand-tool tragics. Lately, I have taken to standing in front of my tool cupboard doing a mental cull on the 30-something planes in there (I'm not game to do a precise count, it would be too discouraging & there are more specialty planes in the cupboard beside it), but it's an exercise I will need to do seriously within the very near future when we leave our lovely couple of acres & my generous shed to down-size.

Rather than ask myself what I'd need on the proverbial desert island (will there be any trees if it's a desert?), I try to decide what would be the minimum number of planes I'd need to go from rough stock to finished item. Depending on how 'rough' the stock is to begin with, that would use my quota of 3 planes (scrub, jack & jointer) already, but if I stopped collecting every windfall that comes my way & only used sawn timber, I could part with the scrub (reluctantly!), which gets me back to two 'starters'.

But then I still have to make something with the prepared wood & that's almost certainly going to need a smoother or two, not to mention a block plane or maybe a shoulder plane or a plough or a rebate or some other of those planes lurking in the cupboard, so my quota is now waaay over 3!

I could probably/possibly cull the bench planes back 50% or so if I grit my teeth & find the courage, but then I'm faced with what to do about things like the 3 shoulder planes I have (actually, 4, I made an even smaller one for model-making):
SP set.jpg

Quite unjustifiable on logical grounds, but I'd hate to break up the "set".

So I put off the decisions until the crunch comes, at which time I'll have to ask LOML to stand beside me & force me to justify each choice. That could lead to a much smaller tool kit ....... or a divorce.

Cheers,

I don't envy you. I've made a couple planes but nothing that was beyond functional so there's no attachment to them. Though I am getting to the point where I need to at the very least put a spreadsheet together for my wife to use if and when I checkout. I've told her, if she tries to off load my stuff at bargain basement prices I will come back and haunt her till her dying day.

On a side note, when you do decide to cull, put me on the short list LOL.

There was a time when I wouldn't even consider breaking up a set - put together painstakingly over a long period.
However, there are some planes that are just more joyful to use than others, and I have found that my working "set" is now a multicultural mix of various parentage.
Stanley, LN, Millers Falls, Record made planes - and a stack of old woodies - have found a place in my kit.
I guess if I ever displayed them they would look most unmatched or "set-like"
But they are what I have grown to like in use, and others that have come and gone over the years did not endear themselves as much.
I think that we all arrive at this point eventually
Tom

Originally Posted by IanW

We're a funny lot, we hand-tool tragics. Lately, I have taken to standing in front of my tool cupboard doing a mental cull on the 30-something planes in there (I'm not game to do a precise count, it would be too discouraging & there are more specialty planes in the cupboard beside it), but it's an exercise I will need to do seriously within the very near future when we leave our lovely couple of acres & my generous shed to down-size.

Rather than ask myself what I'd need on the proverbial desert island (will there be any trees if it's a desert?), I try to decide what would be the minimum number of planes I'd need to go from rough stock to finished item. Depending on how 'rough' the stock is to begin with, that would use my quota of 3 planes (scrub, jack & jointer) already, but if I stopped collecting every windfall that comes my way & only used sawn timber, I could part with the scrub (reluctantly!), which gets me back to two 'starters'.

But then I still have to make something with the prepared wood & that's almost certainly going to need a smoother or two, not to mention a block plane or maybe a shoulder plane or a plough or a rebate or some other of those planes lurking in the cupboard, so my quota is now waaay over 3!

I could probably/possibly cull the bench planes back 50% or so if I grit my teeth & find the courage, but then I'm faced with what to do about things like the 3 shoulder planes I have (actually, 4, I made an even smaller one for model-making):
SP set.jpg

Quite unjustifiable on logical grounds, but I'd hate to break up the "set".

So I put off the decisions until the crunch comes, at which time I'll have to ask LOML to stand beside me & force me to justify each choice. That could lead to a much smaller tool kit ....... or a divorce.

Cheers,

Here's my tip - though this is a tip that I give a wealthy uncle whose hobby was saving money and making money and never spending it. Suddenly, it's nearing 80 and he's really worried about where his money will go. He spends all day playing with it in the market, like you or I would do gardening or toolmaking for leisure - it's pleasurable to him and it's almost surreal in value - like it's not even money any more. It's a video game.

Until he tries to figure out what will happen with it.

I'd say, if the money the tools are worth doesn't make a real difference down the line from you after you're gone (because success in selling tools and hobby stuff is unlikely by anyone other than you), then don't worry about it while you're alive.

Which is what I say to my uncle. "If you don't worry about the money now, I can pretty well guarantee you won't worry about it when you're dead".

I've done a one-up on you and most here, though - most of the tools that I've made are long gone. Many gone as soon as they were made either for nothing in return or the cost of materials. I thought about like which ones of those were the best, because I've generally kept only the rejects - and the "oh, I should've kept those", but the reality is they'd just be sitting in a rack while I'm making more tools.

Keep the ones you use and love. Jettison the rest. You don't have to justify your choices to anybody but yourself.

I keep meaning to crank up my online auction account and purge some excess. I've got a pile of stuff that seemed like a much better idea than it actually was.

Lets be honest... Most tools aren't that bad to replace unless it's something completely odd and impossible to find.

Originally Posted by truckjohn

unless it's something completely odd and impossible to find.

yeah, and then those are often slow to get rid of.

My wife doesn't care for my hobbies, so she has mentioned that she will throw all of the stuff I have away after I die. that goes back to my rule above. I gave her permission to do that, of course, and then told her she wouldn't need it anyway. What I am going to do from a grave or ash can?

Selling some of the tools now and again while buying does help temper buying or making too much, and if making with the consideration to dump something later, realizing it needs to be pretty much perfect.

I sold someone a purpleheart coffin smoother with a tempered berg iron (it was undertempered, and I think the guy who got a bunch of irons probably got a culled batch - tempering fixed it). It was a concept tool to see how much better the plane would work if the mouth were plugged from the start to allow the inside wear to lean forward. It worked fabulously. Tighter mouth, but clearance of a plane with an open mouth - essentially a wooden version of the geometry in an infill plane.

I sold it on ebay without describing much other than what I just said without the "fabulously". I just said it works. I listed it for $55 on ebay and because the insert is basically a mouth plug (you know the connotation of that), it took forever to sell.

The guy who got it was shocked when he used it and gave me a "who are you and where did you come from" kind of response.

Originally Posted by truckjohn

....Keep the ones you use and love. Jettison the rest....

John, on the face of it, that is sound philosophy and the obvious solution to many problems....

BUT, the trouble is that the tools I use & love vary from day to day & month to month depending on what I'm doing. For the last few months I've been working on "small stuff" and my larger bench planes have hardly been out of the cupboard, but before then I had a spate of furniture-making (for the first time in quite a while), and they were hardly ever in the cupboard! If I could decide to concentrate on a limited area of woodworking I could divest myself of a goodly number of tools that wouldn't be of much further use. Somehow I don't think that's likely to happen - I'm a born dilettante!

So I keep tools that get very little use and are hard to justify on purely practical grounds. Nostalgia is another enemy of practicality - I would never part with the saws I inherited from my father & FIL, even if someone offered me a couple of mint Disstons that were clearly better saws.

David, like you, I don't think I should be taking part in decisions made after I shed the mortal coil, but I do think I should ease the load on spouse/kids, whoever has to tidy up the mess I'm likely to leave. At least a couple of my kids would take it very seriously & try to figure out what I might have wanted to do with this or that - tools I've made in particular. That would be pretty difficult when I really don't know myself! None of my kids or LOML's kids have any passion for woodworking so while someone might like to keep a hammer or pair of pliers, they would not like to be lumped with a pile of things for which they have no earthly use or space to store. None of them are desperate for cash, so that won't be an issue, and if they decide to have a big garage sale & sell them all for a few $$s apiece, that's fine by me. I think how over the moon I would've been if in my early years of woodworking I'd stumbled on a garage sale of a shed full of tools like mine at giveaway prices!

I may get to bring a little joy into the world after all....

Cheers,

I don't know that anyone in my house would do much sorting, Ian, but that would be up to them. I have thought about the burden part, though. Just like an old TV used to go off in a flash that went to a tiny point in the center of the screen, I feel like it would be ideal if we could do so, too, with all of our stuff leaving family only with memories and the few things they want.

I've sold ...I think the official mathematical term is....a buhzillion tools on ebay over the years. Not mine other than the oddball here or there, but the - oops, I have 10 jointer planes now and I'm going to trim it back. when you have the run of the mill, it's easy. I fell into the trap of keeping some regular stuff and some valuable unusual stuff. That valuable unusual stuff would sell like molasses.

But right now, what I hear from you is what you like rotates, so you need to keep the rotation. You know this already. When it's time to sell, as a friend at work used to say to me about everything in life "you will do it when you want to do it". She would get very irritated by people who said they wanted to do things and I fell into her trap taking professional exams that I wasn't moving fast enough through due to distaste for the employer at the time. If you get credentialed, your job gets worse. She asked if I wanted to pass the exams after I failed one (failure was common, retaking was the remedy) and I said "yes". What ensued would make a sailors straight hair curl, but I remember it less harshly now for other things. If I don't have the urge, it's not there. If your urge is just a little to figure out, it will grow. If it doesn't, no big deal.

Your post is timely, though - it reminds me that I want to speed up my dumping of things and list more on straight up auctions, as I don't care what the stuff that's in excess brings at this point. Since I kept mostly my own rejects, the trouble isn't there from that side - deciding which "children" to sell, so to speak.

I think the main thing is to watch your emotional wellbeing. The main warning I see is someone who has waning emotional energy for stuff like this. That's the time to box it up and sell out. And I mean everything that the kids don't specifically want. Once the kids have dumped it out in the shed under the leaking roof holes - it is way too late. Then, a collection that could be sent to an auction or dealer becomes a worthless pile of rust, bug chewings, and rat turds.

Granted, my crystal ball isn't that good, In that case, the 2nd best bet is to have conversations with trusted dealers, and leave your family their contact information. That way, at least there's a chance some of it won't end up in the dump.

For my desert island plan, would make a list tools by type only as requiredfor intended projects. If considering "actual" owned tools - there would be a rational

The worry is that this list would be very short, and thus extend the idea that the set is overdone.

I think for now I am okay with caretaker status - not quite "collector"

The worst is the stanley Number 55, complete with original box, earlier version older than than 1919, thats sits under the bench. Feeling tad guiltily about as the 55 as it has sat there since acquired. Was tyre kicking at a "pop up" antique shop - not really intending to purchase - then he told me the price - gosh damn, couldn't refuse. Haven't even checked out if has 100% of the parts - I know it's close.

Not often I do something that needs the 55's capability. So I guess I have to figure out how to display -this one and the miller patent 42 plane..

Martin, I think anyone who has more tools than they use is technically a "collector", but "custodian" sounds milder and is perhaps easier to justify...

I used to decry "collectors" because received wisdom says they drive prices beyond what we "users" want to pay, but have softened my attitude very much over the years. Indeed collectors probably drive up prices of the less common tools, but those aren't the tools a person starting out needs (though typically, we often lust after them not really understanding that we can live perfectly happily without them!). The tools we need to start with, like the common Bailey bench planes etc. don't interest collectors much so I reckon they have little effect, if any, on the prices of the common 'necessary' tools.

Without the eagle eyes of collectors, many old & interesting artifacts would be quietly decomposing in lad-fill, depriving those who are interested in the chance to evaluate them and provide something to work from for those who wish to imitate them. So I say just relax & accept there's a bit of bower-bird in all of us.

Cheers,

Was worried at one time that "technically" the 'working" set had become a collection. The problem with planes was rather large number variations and temptation to find better. But as knowledge grew better has become harder, to find better.

Do suspect that relatively small set is adequate, found are some potential optimums
- think for example my miller falls Number 1 spokeshave has potential to be the only shave. Handles tighter curves than the other, low angle and cut easier and you can feel tearout - and change direction at that point. the other spokeshaves, may be superfluous.

As for collector, hoping longer subject to the collectors theorem ( the perfect number for a collection is "n" (the current number in the collection) +1.

Once the + 1 stops there is a reasonable chance of attrition, given time.

But you see what's happened- created a temptation for one more plane - it's like talking about less while tempting for 4 lovely matching infill shoulder planes.

There's a common thread emerging here - it's the ones that you like using... One of my favourites is a $12 (yes, you read that correctly) block plane from trade tools. Horrible crank lock on the lever cap, rough as guts finish - but it has a remarkably good iron, and is capable of fine cuts. Every time I use it, I get a buzz from the cost/effectiveness ratio. Sits in my apron, and gets whipped out to relieve edges every day I'm in the shop. Weirdly pleasing to own.

This thread comes up from time-to-time .... what is going to happen to my workshop, the tools, the machines .. when I shuffle off this mortal coil? What should I sell now? How much will the tools be worth in my dotage? And the most important one, it seems: Will I get my investment back?

I could not imagine Ian selling off his tools in preparation for decrepitude. I think that he and I are very similar in many ways, and will maintain a workshop to continue building (whatever we are interested in building), as well as to teach family and pass on what is left to those who are interested. That is certainly my intention. And if there is no one to pass them on to, then they will be donated. What of the value, the investment they represent? Should there be money for my widow and family? Nuts to that. Their value is not in the machines and tools, but in the furniture in several homes, in the pleasure and joy the machines and tools have brought me over decades past, and the decades to come (I hope). They do not owe me anything monetarily.

Over the past few years I have been preparing for a move. The underbench cabinet is filled with the best chisels and gauges following a cull. It is still more tools that are needed by a few woodworkers for a few lifetimes ...



It's still a couple of years away, but with retirement will come a downsize of home (no more grounds and pool to upkeep). So it will be a new workshop, which means transporting tools, and this inevitably leads to deciding which will follow me and which will not. I have already sold some and given away more. There are many which I cannot (do not wish) to part with as they have memories ... gifts or associations or something special I built. They are like photographs and the workshop is the photo album. I write this deliberately as some here do not appear to develop a relationship with their tools. Perhaps I am a romantic, but I have enjoyed owning, using, and looking at my tools. I have not spent much time building a workshop with special cabinets to display the tools - just pretty ordinary fare. But it is "home" and a place of calm ... not always solitude as I get plenty of visitors ... but still a counterpoint to my weekdays in my psych practice. When I am too old and decrepit to build much anymore, I think that I will still enjoy being in the workshop ... hopefully with a grandchild or three to guide along the path. If not, I will enjoy the memories.

Regards from Perth

Derek