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  1. #1
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    Default Interesting Wheeler Madden Clemson

    I picked up this 28" Wheeler, Madden, & Clemson recently, WS medallion. It has some type of steel blade/handle guard on the handle (patent date of July 8, 1883). I've found information on the handle guard, but the patent dates don't quite match up with mine (off by a few days). Nice handle, except for the top horn missing -- hate when that happens

    The older gentleman I bought it from didn't know there was supposed to be a top horn -- must have been missing for a long time...

    Regards,
    Dave

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  3. #2
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    I like the look of those particular WS saws. I'm pretty sure my "breakdown" (aggressively filed crosscut saw) is from the same maker, but I think it's private labeled (same handle guard on the bottom, same wheat, same shape). I'll try to get a picture of it and post it tonight.

    I was just using it to cut off a plane blank a few days ago and the horn broke off.....but it broke at an old glue line, and I reglued it.

    Do you have some sort of fruitwood that you could fashion a horn out of?

    I like mine just fine. I don't get the sense from mine that it lacks tension like some saws with WS medallions do.

  4. #3
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    Maybe some of the saw history buffs on here can answer if there is a connection between woodrough and mcparlin and wheeler, madden and clemson.

    I have a woodrough and mcparlin saw labeled ("sheffield"), but specifically not an atkins second line saw. It has an etch that looks a lot like the saw that I have that has the WS medallion (that second saw looks like your saw above). I bought the second saw, because I thought it might be another woodrough and mcparlin offering, but I don't know at this point if they came from a similar place. Their etch was relatively similar, and IIRC, the handles are, too.

    I'll take a picture of both tonight. The full quality saws that aren't well known as full quality are real gems. Everyone associates woodrough and mcparlin with the panther saws, but there are others that often go unnoticed and are very good saws (with nice apple handles, good stiff tension and good steel).

  5. #4
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    "Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."

    Mark Twain

  6. #5
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    "Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."

    Mark Twain

  7. #6
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    "Life would be infinitely happier if we could only be born at the age of eighty and gradually approach eighteen."

    Mark Twain

  8. #7
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    I think mine might have the patent date on the brass reinforcement (there's a story behind that, isn't there? One related to the popularizing of the reinforcement, maybe?), but I have the WS medallion like the OP does, and no peace medallion that I can recall.

    I'll take a picture of the etch, because my memory never includes what things say on them once I start using them unless it's easy like "disston" or "simonds".

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyC View Post
    That seems to be the one like mine -- July 8 1883. The other shows July 3 1883.

    Thanks.

  10. #9
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    Mine might be a bit less like the OPs than I thought. It's marked for a hardware store, and I remember getting it in a lot of unknown maker saws from MJD. Actually, I got shelled in this lot (paid way too much), this was the best of the four saws and it cost me $188 for the lot.

    So, here's the picture of the etch - a hardware store etch in NY:

    P1080344.jpg

    And here's the brace under the handle, with patent date.

    P1080343.jpg

    And here's the whole saw (it has a typical warranted superior medallion, nothing special so I didn't take a picture. It's got plenty of tension and is a treat to use, though, as good as any first line saw I have).

    P1080341.jpg


    And here is what I thought was a "sheffield" branded woodrough and mcparlin saw, but it's actually labeled "Royal Steel" instead, including on the medallion, and it was sold by supplee hardware. It, too, is an excellent excellent saw. What made me chase after the first is the ribbon on the bottom of the etch looked similar.

    P1080346.jpg

    And the whole saw (sorry for the bad pictures, the plate is a bit darker on this second saw, and the camera has a lot of trouble taking a picture of what I want in a dark shop).

    P1080351.jpg

    And the medallion
    P1080356.jpg

  11. #10
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    I like it VERY much. Should become an excellent user. Restore it and take good care of it. Well done. You can restore that horn... No fear...

  12. #11
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    That's really interesting. My first thought of the first saw was 'Simonds' ... as I have several "reinforced" saws ... but the Simonds metal bit curls around the vertical sides a bit also.

    DW's first saw is made by Harvey Peace I'd think for sure ... the handles are pretty distinctive ... plus the guard.
    ... and Vulcan Saw Works was in Brooklyn.


    There's info online about the 'Royal Steel' / Supplee Hardware ... but maybe some of that is you already DW?

    You got the touch there, Dave.
    Cheers,
    Paul

  13. #12
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    The Simonds type ...

    simmonds brass.jpg

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    That's really interesting. My first thought of the first saw was 'Simonds' ... as I have several "reinforced" saws ... but the Simonds metal bit curls around the vertical sides a bit also.

    DW's first saw is made by Harvey Peace I'd think for sure ... the handles are pretty distinctive ... plus the guard.
    ... and Vulcan Saw Works was in Brooklyn.


    There's info online about the 'Royal Steel' / Supplee Hardware ... but maybe some of that is you already DW?

    You got the touch there, Dave.
    Cheers,
    Paul

    Thanks for the info, Paul re: the first saw. I've got no other harvey peace saws, so that makes sense. I really don't know too much about the supplee royal steel saw except that when I brought it up on another forum, it was asserted that it's a woodrough and mcparlin by a knowledgeable person, but other folks told me it was not (nobody had any proof of anything, i guess). I think folks were guessing separately on the handle and hardware vs. the etch, the latter of which seems to have been "shared" among some private label saws (especially the "spring steel warranted" part and the scrolled promise of quality to the right of the etch).

    I still don't know, but if I find more orphans like them, I might buy them! The fact that the second saw is pretty dark makes less difference to me than it would most people.

    I just looked around, and I see Kim Malmberg put up an article on wiktor kuc's site not long after that discussion, and he feels his is disston. I just can't really tell.

  15. #14
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    I am reminded the company is "Supplee-Biddle" ... or was at one point.

    Turns out there's a 5/10 example online ... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VTG-Suppl.../252061772992?

    Yes - it's coming back to me. I have read the one you mentioned: http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib2/...2/WS-02-01.asp

    But also ... "Memories" ... I think ... I remember saving a picture off this page ... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ication-needed

    and ...
    http://lumberjocks.com/replies/824183

    http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=56084

    Cheers,
    Paul

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    I am reminded the company is "Supplee-Biddle" ... or was at one point.

    Turns out there's a 5/10 example online ... http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VTG-Suppl.../252061772992?

    Yes - it's coming back to me. I have read the one you mentioned: http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib2/...2/WS-02-01.asp

    But also ... "Memories" ... I think ... I remember saving a picture off this page ... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ication-needed

    and ...
    http://lumberjocks.com/replies/824183

    http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php?message_id=56084

    Cheers,
    Paul
    I can no longer see the pictures on there, but it might've been the same saw above that you got a picture of.

    I'm always reminded when we start threads like these that there are a couple of little dandies that I'd like to set up an ebay search on, but I always forget it. The last time I set up a supplee search (shortly after that post of that saw on SMC), one of the saws similar to mine sold for a song, like $30 or so. I *think* mine came in a lot from MJD tool for about $85, it included that saw, an athena crosscut saw, a hudson no. 12 rip saw and a little used atkins backsaw that i have yet to file - it was a fabulous sale lot that went right under the radar. I have only overpaid for things on MJD auctions since then. It was sort of like winning a little bit at a blackjack table, and then letting that experience coax you into losing a bunch of hands after that.

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