Thread: Wheeler Madden and Clemson

Thanks Ian.

I have at times loaded all the pix and even before submitting the thread/post they appear as "attachment". Normally I have to reload each pic under these circumstances. Now I try to remember to look down at the list of pictures to make sure it corresponds with the number I should have.

However, in this instance all looked OK before posting and I can see everything as it should be ( providing you ignore the typos.) I will wait to hear from the techos.

Regards
Paul

I will see if I can add just the pix here. I am reluctant to meddle with the initial post at this stage. The moderators can delete this one at a later stage if the issues are resolved with post #13 (lucky for some?)

OK. I had trouble loading the pix. Initially the last four pix showed up blank (no picture) on my previously loaded history. The three pix that were visible I clicked and dragged but then they showed up blank too. So I tried to reload all the pix and they came up blank (blue blank). I have now reached the limit of my technology. Hope this helps the techos.

Unfortunately I no longer have the facility to edit post #13. This is the way the pix should have presented (if they load correctly this time). I am happy to reload the pix to post #13 if the facility to edit can be re-instated, and then this post can be deleted in it's entirety.


P1030093.JPGP1030094.JPGP1030095.JPG

P1030096.JPGP1030097.JPG

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I hope this works and the pix are visible.

Regards
Paul

Attachment 425542 Attachment 425543 Attachment 425544 Attachment 425542 Attachment 425543 Attachment 425544

It seems there a pic problem across the whole forum[emoji853]


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Paul, the pic problem seems to have been fixed, I had no trouble uploading to my thread on the cast-iron plane last night. But looks like you've got your pic situation into a tailspin. It might be because you uploaded multiple times, though since each upload gets a unique number, it shouldn't matter if you upload the same pic more than once. I think the server just has you singled out for special hassles.....

If you are still able to edit your original post, you could try removing the picture attachment links and re-loading & re-pasting the pics....
Cheers,

Thanks Ian.

Unfortunately the edit facility must have expired on post #13, but I have re-loaded pix for post #18. It looks OK my end. You folks will have to let me know what you can see.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Thanks Ian.

Unfortunately the edit facility must have expired on post #13, but I have re-loaded pix for post #18. It looks OK my end. You folks will have to let me know what you can see.

Regards
Paul

OK, I can see them now Paul.....

I have been making up a saw from parts (to be the subject of a future thread) and was in the process of reviewing the style of handle I would make. Just from sheer quirkiness I like the Holden pattern, although my belief is that Atkins' "Perfection" handle is unsurpassed for comfort. However, that is a very subjective standpoint and everybody would have their own opinion.

To return to the build saw, I was concerned the handle would be too large and when I was starting the side plates thread I did come across this WMC saw from the pile (or more likely made by WMC for somebody else) in a sorry state, but also a little mystifying in that it had raised saw nuts, a little bit cone head style and seemed to be missing a medallion in the cutout that was there.

P1030093.JPGP1030094.JPGP1030095.JPG

These screws themselves seem to be a combination in that they reflect the Glover patent, but with the Munger shaft thickness. There is a good amount of thread on the shaft and it is held well although the shafts are slightly bent in each saw screw. The screw in the medallion position had a brass washer beneath it but smaller than the timber cutout. It could have been a later addition:

P1030096.JPGP1030097.JPG

They clean up quite nicely and there is a very slight pattern to the head of the nut:

P1030098.JPGP1030099.JPGP1030100.JPG

The saw screws are all the same.

The saw plate is a piece of rubbish (almost sharpened away and bent) so that will go in the waste basket probably, but the handle is good and I am quite taken by the saw screws . It did occur to me that this may have been one of the saws that had a side plate as these screws would suit that construction, but there is no evidence on the handle of this. Alternatively I wondered if originally there was a large brass washer in the medallion position.

It also turned out that this handle is larger than the one I am making, which really surprised me. Initially I thought it was an Apple handle but closer inspection showed it to be Beech.

Any thoughts?

Regards
Paul

Edit: I have just realised that I did previously post a pic of this sorry saw. On reflection I am surprised I did that. I must have been a little short on material for pix .

2nd edit: I have re-posted post #13 as it was too awkward to flick back between pages. Hope this helps. What a rigmarole for a worn out, bent up past it's use by date POS!

PS: I hope the pix show

An example of a WMC etch ... seen online ...

26196338_10213145800854218_7532753721424779794_n.jpg

I was tempted to place this post in the Ebay Droppings thread, but that I tend to reserve for the outlandish Ebay listings. This one is a bit on the extreme side, but not exactly absurd, that is providing you have deep pockets and can forgive an anomaly.

This is the saw that is currently posted and it is actually a rather nice looking saw:

Attachment 474333
WMC 999 question.jpg

It has the distinctive Holden handle as so many WMC saw wear. This one is one of the most elaborate with the extra cove:

WMC 999 question handle.jpg

But there is an anomaly. It sports a Warranted Superior medallion. Unfortunately there is no visible etch or at least the seller has not attempted to clean off the patina to see if there is a clue beneath:

WMC 999 question Warranted Superior medallion.jpg

This saw was near the top of the line. Only two models were more expensive. I would have expected it to have had an "XLCR" medallion. This was the only model that fits from the 1895 catalogue, a No.999.

Attachment 474336P1060065 (Medium).JPG

The Holden patent dates from 1879 (3 June 1879) so the seller's claim that it was 1873 is incorrect and he must have mis-read the stamp which is not quite as clear as he alleges.

Attachment 474338
WMC pat date on handle.jpg

This is the listing:

Beautiful Warranted Superior Saw 1873 Lincoln Era? | eBay

Other handles in the range were less ornate and less decorated. Some I have shown here

P1060067 (Medium).JPGAttachment 474337

US$650 is a hefty slab of money for something that may not be quite right. Actually it is probably steep if it was right and in better condition (saw plate I am talking here). Will it sell for that? I doubt it particularlyas it has been placed in the Warranted Superior category and not that for Wheeler Madden & Clemson.

Just for fun and a little bit of comparison, this is another WMC saw up for sale:

WMC standard.jpg WMCstandard etch.jpg

With a starting price of US$5 it is a little more competitively priced although it is not clear which model it is and the medallion is again the Warranted Superior type. So now I am thinking that this brand when it came under the ownership of Disston in 1895 used the WS medallion. Who knows?

WMC standard medallion.jpg

Regards
Paul

It is something of a Wheeler Madden and Clemson fest at the moment. There is a coveted Star model up for sale too. It started at US$1.00 and is now US$960 with almost three days to go.

WMC Star.jpgWMC Star handle.jpg

I think that is rather a high price ( and I am sure it will go for a lot more than $960) for a saw that bears no etch, has multiple broken teeth and exhibits some damage to the handle mainly on the reverse side. Perhaps that is just an indication of the place this model occupies in handsaw mythology.

Vintage Wheeler Madden And Clemson Star Hand saw, 26", Rare | eBay

This is from the 1877 catalogue:

Wheeler Madden and Clemsen 1877 catalogue[45209].jpg

and this is from 1895 (now under Disston ownership)

P1060071 (Medium).JPG

Gone is the star handle but the name was retained with a Holden patent handle. It was the second most expensive saw in the range.

Regards
Paul

Ahem

Did I say the US$ 960 was a bit steep for a saw with no etch, multiple broken teeth and a less than perfect handle? Also that it would sell for more?

WMC Star auction price.jpg

US$2175 is A$3262 at today's conversion rate. Plus shipping.

Regards
Paul

Paul how do plan to explain your purchase to SWMBO?

Originally Posted by Pac man

Paul how do plan to explain your purchase to SWMBO?

Well Pac man you irreverent, provocative and mischievous soul, I might take a number of approaches here dependent primarily on the phases of the moon, the availability of SWMBO's supply of red wine and the ambient temperature at night related to the compatibility and very real prospect of camping out.

Of course the first strategy is that it is easier to seek forgiveness than ask for permission at least in the initial stages, but this might not translate into a good outcome when it comes to sentencing.

Secondly, in difficult and somewhat delicate situations like this, I fall back on Bill Clinton's explanation to Andrew Denton's question of how did he explain to his daughter Chelsea his indiscretion with a young White House female. He said that there comes a time in every child's life when they have to realise that their parents may not be perfect. I could consider owning up to a poor decision and explain that to err is human but to forgive is divine. I could also consider that I am the child.

Then comes the investment strategy. In this particular instance I don't think it would be difficult to make the case. The weakness in the argument would be that the object has to be sold to realise any benefit and that I would not be doing. This means that I would have to die for SWMBO to realise the benefit. That brings me to the second weakness of this strategy and one that places my own existence in some peril.

Of course the first and most obvious ploy would be to not say anything and hope it goes unnoticed: Unlikely. Plan B, when the bank statement/Paypal is discovered, is to fall down demonstratively with much wailing proclaiming "I've been hacked!" This would work: For a while...

I could play the Alpha male and just say "It's what I want (actually fairly close to the truth). Get used to it." That is where the ambient temperature and the prospect of camping out in the back yard become important considerations. It is also at this juncture that I regret providing SWMBO with a collection of JP kitchen knives that are sharp enough to remove body parts without you knowing they are no longer with you until you go to move them.

However, this is all for saws that cost a mere US$31.00 and not in the thousands. For a purchase such as Wheeler Madden and Clemson's Star saw, which actually I am not too fussed by on a purely aesthetic basis, I would be on my way towards NSW on foot carrying a holdall with my favourite saws and seeking accommodation from any kind woodworker who would take pity on me.

Thank you for bringing this possible plight into glaring reality.



Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Well Pac man you irreverent, provocative and mischievous soul, I might take a number of approaches here dependent primarily on the phases of the moon, the availability of SWMBO's supply of red wine and the ambient temperature at night related to the compatibility and very real prospect of camping out.

Of course the first strategy is that it is easier to seek forgiveness than ask for permission at least in the initial stages, but this might not translate into a good outcome when it comes to sentencing.

Secondly, in difficult and somewhat delicate situations like this, I fall back on Bill Clinton's explanation to Andrew Denton's question of how did he explain to his daughter Chelsea his indiscretion with a young White House female. He said that there comes a time in every child's life when they have to realise that their parents may not be perfect. I could consider owning up to a poor decision and explain that to err is human but to forgive is divine. I could also consider that I am the child.

Then comes the investment strategy. In this particular instance I don't think it would be difficult to make the case. The weakness in the argument would be that the object has to be sold to realise any benefit and that I would not be doing. This means that I would have to die for SWMBO to realise the benefit. That brings me to the second weakness of this strategy and one that places my own existence in some peril.

Of course the first and most obvious ploy would be to not say anything and hope it goes unnoticed: Unlikely. Plan B, when the bank statement/Paypal is discovered, is to fall down demonstratively with much wailing proclaiming "I've been hacked!" This would work: For a while...

I could play the Alpha male and just say "It's what I want (actually fairly close to the truth). Get used to it." That is where the ambient temperature and the prospect of camping out in the back yard become important considerations. It is also at this juncture that I regret providing SWMBO with a collection of JP kitchen knives that are sharp enough to remove body parts without you knowing they are no longer with you until you go to move them.

However, this is all for saws that cost a mere US$31.00 and not in the thousands. For a purchase such as Wheeler Madden and Clemson's Star saw, which actually I am not too fussed by on a purely aesthetic basis, I would be on my way towards NSW on foot carrying a holdall with my favourite saws and seeking accommodation from any kind woodworker who would take pity on me.

Thank you for bringing this possible plight into glaring reality.



Regards
Paul

Your not telling her are you Paul.

Cheers Matt.




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