Thread: Wooden joinery plane... assistance

Good sale wasn't it snafu? Masses of carving chisels this time. Surprising how the emphasis seems different each time.
ps sorry can't help with the query.

Originally Posted by jimbur

Good sale wasn't it snafu? Masses of carving chisels this time. Surprising how the emphasis seems different each time.
ps sorry can't help with the query.

It was, although I can't comment on the others as this was the first I've attended. I was surprised by how many people were in attendance, to be quite honest, and of all ages too (except a child someone left unattended crawling about in a box of axes...).

I know that planes of the type I've purchased aren't at all uncommon, I can see a few of similar design listed on the toolexchange.com (usually just as "plow planes").

Edit: It's apparently a sash fillester plane. What use such a beast might be, I'm not yet sure...

Well, I've discovered it's a moving sash fillister plane, used primarily for making windows and some moulding work.

Since I've not the faintest idea what practical use I'd find for it, I will probably have to think about selling it. If I can bring myself to part with it...

I was going to point out it is a rebate plane and not a plow but you have figured that out. I have something similar but not as good as that one as mine has no nicker blade. I will have to replace the boxwood strip as it is a bit worn. Been looking for some boxwood but may have to sacrfice an old rule if I cant find some.

Regards
john

Orraloon, I suspect that replacing the boxwood strip would be very difficult indeed, at least using the traditional method with the complex rebate figure. According to W.J. Armour's Practical Planemaking:

"Next to the plough the sash fillester is the most difficult to make... the working corner is rebated out to let in the dovetail boxing, which is put in all the best work; this dovetail boxing is very fine, and there are few planemaker tradesmen who can do it. It is absolutely necessary that it should fit in every way, as the greater part of the iron beds on to it, and, if it did not fit, it would spring when the pressure of the wedge was on it. In doing this work nine different planes are required."

Armour does show what those specialist planes look like, so you can get an idea of the shapes. However, the type of rebate that Armour illustrates is a good deal less complex than that used in my Varvill plane, so I shudder to think how deep that rabbit hold might go.

I guess that simply cutting a rebate and using modern glues to attach a new strip would probably work well, though would not be as aesthetically pleasing, IMO.

As for what they're actually used for, according to Nicholson's Mechanic's Companion (published 1842, when these planes were in common use):

"The sash fillester is a rebating plane for reducing the right hand side of the stuff to a rebate, and is mostly used in rebating the bars of sashes for the glass, and is therefore called a sash fillester".

It makes sense to find this reference in Nicholson, which was a text concerned with carpentry, not cabinetmaking ("joinery") - these fillesters were largely used by sashmakers, which I gather was a specialty in its own right.

The need for these planes springs from the fact that it can be difficult to perfectly thickness stock using handplane methods, which is a problem when making window frames. That is because the rebates holding the glass must be at precisely the same distance from the flat face, else the glass will not sit quite flat relative to those faces or each other (which would be quite obvious, glass being reflective). The sash fillester allows you to make this rebate for the glass on the "back" of the board, while referencing from the flat "front" - making it unnecessary to make the stock a perfectly uniform thickness.

Do they have any practical use in the shop, though - can they do anything a regular moving fillester can't do? I suppose the answer is probably no. However, they might be useful in making glass doors for display cabinets.

Despite not having any practical use for the thing, I don't think I could bring myself to get rid of it (oh no... the collecting begins ).

However, what I thought I was buying - and what I set out to buy - was a moving fillister, ideally with a skewed blade. I had a Stanley #78 for a while, but it was crap, so I sold it. Especially after playing with this plane, I'm pretty enthusiastic about the wooden joinery plane idea. After spending hours lapping and grinding and filing metal planes, I'm enamoured with the idea of a plane that can be trued in a few minutes, using only a shoulder plane for the fence, fine-set Stanley #4 for the sole and coat of oil and wax for cleaning. (That's right, no rust removal!).

Of course the iron has to be reground and honed, but you can set the angle by marking off the sole. The nicker is soft enough to sharpen with a file. Apart from that, assuming all the wedges are sound, the boxing is intact, the iron is well bedded, and the screw threads are in good condition, you're done. Wait, that's quite a list, isn't it... sounds perfect

So... does anyone have a moving fillester they wouldn't mind parting with?

Or, does anyone have the details of the gentleman I purchased the sash fillester from at the HTPAA sale? I recall that his name was Frank - he mentioned that he had a collection of several hundred ploughs of different types, so I'm sure he'll have a few more fillesters for sale. I know that Hans Brunner also has one for auction.

Originally Posted by orraloon

I was going to point out it is a rebate plane and not a plow but you have figured that out. I have something similar but not as good as that one as mine has no nicker blade. I will have to replace the boxwood strip as it is a bit worn. Been looking for some boxwood but may have to sacrfice an old rule if I cant find some.

Regards
john

Hi,
your sash filletster plane is interesting. It seems of early type, with the escapement for shaves on the right side (on the bench sash filletster), differently from those, like that snafuspyramid showed with the chips escapement on the left (off the bench). Whelan describes these planes in its book "The Wooden Plane" but I never had seen one like yours. Has it a maker name?

Ciao,
Giuliano

Giuliano,
I think it is English. It is made by Joseph Cooper and Son. No mark on the blade.
Snafuspyrmid,
The boxing on this one is just strait rectangle section so should not be too much of a problem.

Regards
John

Originally Posted by orraloon

Giuliano,
I think it is English. It is made by Joseph Cooper and Son. No mark on the blade.
Snafuspyrmid,
The boxing on this one is just strait rectangle section so should not be too much of a problem.

Regards
John

Hi John,
The book "British Planemakers from 1700" encloses a Joseph Cooper and Son, planemaker in Birmingham from 1878 to 1888. So, if the same Cooper, yuor plane is quite old.

Regards
Giuliano

Giuliano,
Thanks for that information. I'll have a look around for that book as it sounds interesting. I had a guess my plane was about the turn of the 20th century. So it is a little bit older.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by snafuspyramid

Or, does anyone have the details of the gentleman I purchased the sash fillester from at the HTPAA sale? I recall that his name was Frank - he mentioned that he had a collection of several hundred ploughs of different types, so I'm sure he'll have a few more fillesters for sale. I know that Hans Brunner also has one for auction.

Eddie, I think you are talking about Frank Ham, has probably the biggest tool collection in Oz (the S Hemisphere?). You can contact him through the HTPAA website:
HTPAA :: Office Bearers

My moving filester is regretably not for sale, however if you want a friend for your sash filester, I have one you can buy... needs only a little work

Cheers
Peter