A wooden thread thread

[jazzy69]

Hi Brendan,
Have a look at Carter's Whittling on YouTube. Heaps of tutorials there.
Regards,
Ross

[IanW]

Hi Brendan. First, welcome to the Forum.

There are all sorts of instructions on making the tap here & there, but you have to search them out. I wrote a two-part article for Australian Wood Review on making wooden nuts & screws from scratch. The first part (making the tap) is in issue #92 & making a router jig to thread the screws is in the following issue (93).

I presume you don't have a woodlathe? I think your proposed method for 'turning' the piece for the tap sounds like it will work. It doesn't need to be perfect, a few small irregularities won't affect its performance. Another way to make a piece of wood round enough for purpose would be to make up a jig in which you can capture the piece using a couple of nails driven into the end centres, so you can spin it round by hand as you rasp away the waste. Before you mount the blank, slip a plywood template drilled to the desired diameter over the end nail, so you can check the fit as you get it close. With a bit of care & persistence you could get it quite good enough for the job. Since you are going to need to turn up blanks for your screws, your router jig is probably the better way to go, if you allow for it to be adjusted to the larger diameter needed for the screw.

Your method for laying out the 'driver' kerf would probably work, but seems rather cumbersome to me, and prone to inaccuracies. I think the method I used in the article referred to is simpler. Using it, you can select any pitch you desire (and yes, 8-10mm pitch works well forwood threads). Cut out the template & wrap it round your tap & there you have a precise, spiral line which you can follow with a tenon saw or whatever saw seems appropriate. I cut mine while it was in the lathe, but you could probably do the same using your jig. A groove 3-4mm deep works well for me.

You don't really need two sizes of screw for the shoulder & tail vises, whatever suits one will almost certainly suit the other, but of course if you just want to have fun making different sized screws, I'd be the last person to try to stop you!

For my main bench I used a 2 inch screw for the tail vise - I would've used the same diameter for a shoulder vise if I'd made one as I originally intended, but I had a metal screw of a suitable diameter & used that to home-bake a front vise instead. The tail vise has been in regular use for well over 30 years and the screw in it shows no signs of flagging, yet. (Edit: these vises are shown in this thread).

I made a smaller 'portable' bench a couple of years ago, & just for fun, I used all home-fabricated, all-wooden vises (front, tail & twin-screw). There are some details of the vises here. The screws for all 3 vises are 1.5" diameter (Bull oak). They are plenty strong enough - you would have to get very serious to strip one.

Screws are the weaker link, as the threads are all short-grain, You can tap nuts in just about any wood (across the grain) & it is unlikely to give, but for screws you should select something you know to be pretty tough & doesn't split easily along the grain lines.

Good luck with your project & keep us informed of progress....
Cheers,

[T91]

Many Thanks,
You have given me quite a few clues, including experimenting with my own moxon sub-bench, here pictured stored under my main bench (all constructed from various scavenged pallet wood(s))

Brendan

[Kidbee]

Any forum members here own a German made Dieter Schmid thread cutter. I know they are very expensive but how do they perform? Been looking at the Beall ones that require the router or the Dieter Schmid ones. Maybe a Christmas present for myself coming up!!

[Kidbee]

I was hoping Ian W would have been online about this. After a fair bit of toing and froing I have opted for the Beall kit. Ian said sharpening of those other bits is a nightmare so I have heeded his advice. I would like to know why the 3/4 size was his most used thread.

Also I would like to get a bit of Crows Ash. Can anyone guide me there. Have a small step-grandson and I would like to whip him up a nice wooden bolt and nut set for Christmas Day.

[planemaker]

I was hoping Ian W would have been online about this. After a fair bit of toing and froing I have opted for the Beall kit. Ian said sharpening of those other bits is a nightmare so I have heeded his advice. I would like to know why the 3/4 size was his most used thread.

Also I would like to get a bit of Crows Ash. Can anyone guide me there. Have a small step-grandson and I would like to whip him up a nice wooden bolt and nut set for Christmas Day.

http://www.bealltool.com/pdfs/threader.pdf

http://www.bealltool.com/pdfs/tapandcrank.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCLG...e=channel_page

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLTE...e=channel_page

[IanW]

I was hoping Ian W would have been online about this. After a fair bit of toing and froing I have opted for the Beall kit. Ian said sharpening of those other bits is a nightmare so I have heeded his advice. I would like to know why the 3/4 size was his most used thread.

Also I would like to get a bit of Crows Ash. Can anyone guide me there. Have a small step-grandson and I would like to whip him up a nice wooden bolt and nut set for Christmas Day.

Hi Kidbee, I saw your post, but as I've never used one of those German threaders, I had nothing useful to say. Someone has posted on them here, somewhere, but I can't find the post, so that's no help either.

You probably made the right decision to go with a Beall kit. Router threading can work on just about any wood invented, whereas the old cutting threaders definitely prefer some woods over others. My rule f thumb was if it peels nicely under a skew, it is likely to respond well to a threadbox style threader. I switched to router threading many years ago, & it's been a very long time since I used a threadbox, but I think Crows Ash is one species that would thread well by that method. It certainly takes a beautiful thread off a router cutter.

It's a wood that's native to our area, so there should be some around - have you tried asking at the local mens shed? If you can't get your hands on some locally, PM me - I have a few bits left over, & might be able to help out..

Cheers,

[NCArcher]

I have the Beall in 4 sizes. Buy some bunnings dowel to practice on as it takes a bit of setting up to get it just right. I watched a video recently where the guy soaked his dowel in mineral oil for a few days prior to cutting the thread. I might try that as I get bad chipout on some timbers in the larger sizes

[IanW]

...... I watched a video recently where the guy soaked his dowel in mineral oil for a few days prior to cutting the thread. I might try that as I get bad chipout on some timbers in the larger sizes

Tony, I second the suggestion to practice on scrap 'til you think you've got it sorted, but I'd be cautious with the oil-soaking idea. It can certainly help on some woods with the 'manual' threadbox style, softening the fibres & making them cut more cleanly, but I've not had much luck with oiling the dowel for router threading. I have tried it a couple of times & it usually ends up with a mess of oily chips getting stuck in the thread of the jig. If you let the oil dry before feeding it to the router, it would probably improve matters.

In my experience, there are several causes of thread chipping;
1. A dull cutter. If you are getting chipping with a wood that normally cuts cleanly, that may be the cause. I made that discovery back when I used tool-steel cutters that dull fairly quickly in hard abrasive woods. The carbide cutter of the Beall threader should cut miles of thread before it dulls, so that's unlikely the source in your case, yet.
2. Not having the cutter set quite right (i.e., a teeny bit too far forward or back, and/or too high or low). If the thread runs easily for a few turns, but then starts progressively binding & chipping, look to that.
3. Using slightly oversized dowel. This usually manifests as the dowel being hard to rotate, and can result in partial stripping if the tight threads are forced through the jig.
4. An inappropriate wood- some woods are just too brittle & fragile to take a good thread and will chip no matter what. This usually shows as intermittent chipping/flaking, where there are sections of weak & odd grain (straight, even, grain is the go for wood screws!). Better to give up on these woods as the screws probably won't be very durable in use.

It can certainly take a bit of fiddling to get the jig set up perfectly, so have a few scraps of low-value material on hand for the purpose. I keep scraps of 'perfect' thread to help with subsequent setups.

And commercial dowel is rarely very suited to the purpose. Besides being mostly species that don't thread brilliantly, can be all over the place size-wise. It's usually under-sized, which isn't too bad, but over-size will definitely cause you trouble. It's far better to turn your own blanks if you can.

Cheers,

[Bushmiller]

I have the Beall in 4 sizes. Buy some bunnings dowel to practice on as it takes a bit of setting up to get it just right. I watched a video recently where the guy soaked his dowel in mineral oil for a few days prior to cutting the thread. I might try that as I get bad chipout on some timbers in the larger sizes

Tony

I have the Carbatec box threads, at least one of which I acquired from you when you bought the Beall tools. I have only used them in a very limited way, and this is something that should be born in mind when choosing which device to go with as an expensive or complicated set up is hardly warranted for a single thread. Even the Carbatec box threaders are not really cheap, but back to the issue: The instructions with my box threader recommended oiling the timber. This however is not "soaking" them in oil. Think lubricant more than impregnation. I was using Spotted Gum, which is arguably problematical and in the harder area of timbers. The addition of a coating of oil improved the performance dramatically. This is akin to the use of cutting fluid with a metal tap. I don't see any reason to do it with a router threading set up and as Ian said it would work against you.

Regards
Paul

[woodPixel]

I wish I hadn't given away all those boxes of AWR magazines... esp the ones with IanW's wood thread articles!

Bugger!

(BTW, I still have, and show off, those HUGE thread you sent!.... workbench....aaaannnnnyyyy day now )


Edit!!!! AHHH!!!! My subscription is available via ZINEO! Ripper, issue 92 is there

[Kidbee]

I wish I hadn't given away all those boxes of AWR magazines... esp the ones with IanW's wood thread articles!

Bugger!

(BTW, I still have, and show off, those HUGE thread you sent!.... workbench....aaaannnnnyyyy day now )


Edit!!!! AHHH!!!! My subscription is available via ZINEO! Ripper, issue 92 is there

I too have just bought a digital copy of issue 92. How instant it is to get a copy.

[Kidbee]

Ian, last night I met up with an acquaintance who has offered me some woods for my future projects. He comes from a family of cabinet makers and turn 80 years old next year. The woods are Crows Ash sourced from a very old hotel building that was demolished, some lignum vitae and some Atlantic Beech, a species that I know nothing about at this stage.

I was wondering if you have any photos of threads made from lignum vitae? He told me the person who cut it for him wrecked two saw blades. I guess by that, he means they went blunt very quickly.
There is an old thread on Lignum Vitae on this forum Lignum Vitae and by all accounts its uses are legendary, especially in the old sailing ship industry.

It has been described as having an interlocked, herring bone type grain. What it shares in common with Crows Ash is its waxy/oily properties which must have inherent qualities for a wood screw to make it glide through the corresponding nut threads.

[IanW]

......I was wondering if you have any photos of threads made from lignum vitae? He told me the person who cut it for him wrecked two saw blades. I guess by that, he means they went blunt very quickly. .....

.....It has been described as having an interlocked, herring bone type grain. What it shares in common with Crows Ash is its waxy/oily properties which must have inherent qualities for a wood screw to make it glide through the corresponding nut threads.

'Fraid not, Kidbee. I've not tried threading any 'genuine' Lignum vitae.

I would wonder if the wood you've been given really is Guaiacum officinale, which though a dense wood, is oily & reputed to turn well. Common names can be very misleading, and there are also several species in the same genus, so there's bound to be a good deal of variability.

The two different bits of supposed Lignum I've had over the years (very small sample!), were like chalk & cheese. One bit turned nicely and I suspect would've threaded equally nicely, because the two go together, in my experience. The second piece, which I still have a bit of, was very hard & didn't like being planed much, but I'd rate it as better than a lump of wild-grained Ironbark. I used it for a plane sole & although not what you'd call 'easy' to work with, it certainly didn't destroy any tools. All you can do is give it a go & see how it responds, if it peels nicely when you turn it, it should thread very well, but if it chips & picks out, I predict it won't make very nice threads.

The Crows Ash, if it comes from good, mature trees and is straight-grained, & still a bit greasy, should make excellent screws...

Cheers,

[Kidbee]

Well my Beall order was shipped today and delivery is scheduled for 6/12/18. Shipping cost was USD80 ouch!

As I posted previously, I am being gifted some Crows Ash but won’t be getting it until I see him in February next year. So I am buying some through a guy that sells timber at the Maleny Wood Expo where I got his business card earlier this year.

When I am set up and running I will post some photos of my output.