Thread: Another (yawn) saw

Hi Ian,

No yawning here...

I should check in here more often, another IanW saw to admire

Love that she-oak

Regards
Ray

Thanks Ray. Yes, She-Oak makes lovely handles - I like it for the nice smooth finish it takes as much or more than for its colour & grain pattern. After posting this saw this afternoon, I went back & used it on a few jobs, including making a slot for itself in my "overflow" saw cupboard. It acquitted itself well, and I think I will be seeing this saw on my bench quite often.

As the person who kick-started me on this saw-making journey, there have been times when I didn't know if I should curse you or thank you, but when I note the set of very useable saws I now own as a consequence, I think the balance is clearly on the 'thanks' side. It's been a fascinating trip, and I have learnt a lot about saws, but realise I still have plenty left to learn. With so many combinations of rake, set, fleam (or not) and tooth sizes possible, I don't think I will ever be able to say I have mastered it.

By co-incidence, I was about to contact you. I'm preparing an article for AWR at the moment (which may or may not ever get to press, of course) and I would like to provide some links to a few web sites. So I am hoping you wouldn't mind my giving your web site as a useful source of ideas, especially for handle shapes and thge PDF of tooth templates?

Cheers,

What's to yawn about?? Lovely job!!

Originally Posted by artme

What's to yawn about??

Artme, I am suggesting that you will all be getting a bit bored with my endless minor variations on a theme, that's all. I was thinking of using "101 ways with a Bunnies scraper blade" for the title.

Some of you might be relieved to hear that I have completely run out of ideas for any new saws; the mind is now empty of things saw-like; blank! So there won't be any new saws from me.
(Until someone puts up something interesting, & I start thinking "Hmm, that could be useful......." )

Cheers,

What do you mean yawn? Hand saws and hand planes are just about the most interesting non-living thing going. I wish I was as clever at making saws as you. This is totally unexplored territory for me.

Originally Posted by chook

What do you mean yawn? Hand saws and hand planes are just about the most interesting non-living thing going. I wish I was as clever at making saws as you. This is totally unexplored territory for me.

Not clever, Chook - just practised. There's only one way to explore new territory, ya gottta go there. It's not that difficult to make a saw, but it does seem to be very hard to stop!
Cheers,

Ian, scraper blade from bunnies, i hadnt heard of that before, are the dovetails saws made from the same , they were thinner .015" from memory so i'm guessing not or do they have thinner scrapers too?




cheers
chippy

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

Ian, scraper blade from bunnies, i hadnt heard of that before, are the dovetails saws made from the same , they were thinner .015" from memory so i'm guessing not or do they have thinner scrapers too?

Hi Chippy, over the years, I've used saw plate of several sizes, from several sources, hence your confusion. The Bunnies scraper blades are one source, but a couple of years ago, one of our members (RayG) organised a group buy of .020" saw plate, and I've bought & scrounged plate form other sources as well.

Using builders scrapers was kicked-off about 6 years ago, when BobL from WA posted a saw made from a replacement scraper blade . Bob has access to machines that can measure hardness, & he checked a few blades & found they are ~R53, which is towards the upper end of desirable hardness for a saw. The blades are flat & seem to have a bit of built-in tension from the rolling process, & as far as I'm concerned mke very good saw plate. When I first started using them, they had a slightly thinner blade, that I haven't seen since I bought the last 2 in the shop a long while ago - pity, because at about 0.65mm thick, they were even better for 300mm tenon saws. At $12 each, it's not a huge outlay, & there is some waste, though I have found several ways of using the off-cuts - they make dandy small scrapers, surprise, surprise.

Lately, I have been eying off those cheap plastic handled saws with hardened teeth - not only are they cheaper (especially on sale), but they have more useable metal once you cut those hardened teeth off. However, I just can't bring myself to wreck a brand new saw, so I'm waiting til the one I carry in my ute wears out, then I'll get at it. I've used quite a few disposable Irwin backsaw blades for sawmaking, and they are fine once the old teeth are removed. I've not struck any where the hardning extended any more than about 1mm above the gullet line.

You are correct that my dovetail saws are .015" thick plate. This is 1095 spring steel shim stock which you can buy by the sheet from a few suppliers in the U.S. The steel cost is reasonable, but shipping is a killer! I don't know how hard the shim stock is, but I would say it is definitely as hard as you want to go - it can be a bit tough on lesser-quality files!

Cheers,

very interesting, thanks for that Ian, i do know of a couple of places in the US that sell sheet 1095, seems to be blue steel not polished (a basic search i did , of which i barely understand, or how the system of purchasing works), its has a rating of about the same you mention, not bad at all, wish i could specify exactly for different blades) not sure the cost or the cost of shipping though, or if its worthwhile, or even if they ship to Oz. i have a few old saws and i am in two minds whether to leave the saw plate and basically retire the saws to ornaments (well they kinda have been already) because they are too worn down to be of (intended) proper use or too pitted and rusted to come back from the dead, if its too pitted or rusted for me believe its true, i dont mind saws with blemishes. some are old girls i picked up over the years for different reasons, but some i have done considerable work with me (or shared work with my workers but i still considered them mine, they just wore out quicker letting others use them) personally, i'm not overly attached to my tools (famous last words, honestly i'm not, their just frigging tools lol, some tools you just kinda get accustomed to is all) but some i dont really want to let them to die either, they survived a lot, or is that they survived me, well almost (so ok i have a few favourites



p.s. yeah the new saws look ideal, they will work, but they are more gummy than the old steel saws to sharpen; old, nice to file, new, not so much, but hey, they work!...old steel is nicer though if comparing, i suspect the new saws have chromium or some such thing that is a rust prohibitive element, at least untill they get worn down a bit (used against timber) then they rust as good as anything (in quick time), always shows first where they touch the timber

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

......but they are more gummy than the old steel saws to sharpen; old, nice to file, new, not so much, but hey, they work!...old steel is nicer though if comparing, i suspect the new saws have chromium or some such thing that is a rust prohibitive element, at least untill they get worn down a bit (used against timber) then they rust as good as anything (in quick time), always shows first where they touch the timber

Funny you should mention that. You have probably filed about 1,000 times as many saws as I have, but if you'd asked me, I would have said there is a huge variation in 'fileability' of both old saws & new metal. I sharpened an old Disston back saw for a friend a few months back & it was like the proverbial hobs of hell - not much life left in the file when I was finished with that one (& it set ok, so it wasn't brittle - weird!). The saw plate from the bulk buy is the same as that used by a well-known sawmaker, & is supposed to be Swedish steel sawplate. I noticed it was a bit variable to file, mostly at the gilloutined edges, so I put that down to work-hardening. After filing the 'shop' edge down a bit, they are much better, but can still have a few spots that make the file skate.

As for rust, well, all steels are mostly iron, so if you supply them with oxygen and a bit of humidity, any brew will still make you lots of oxide unless it's genuine 'stainless' steel. What is interesting is the different surface patterns you get. I don't mind fine blotching and light, even oxidation, but some steels pit severely, with those deep "lightening strike" patterns. At one stage, I was sure this was associated with high chromium content, but now I'm not so sure that's the cause of it . I see it most on 'modern' steel, but it's certainly not a post WW2 phenomenon, because my much-loved old New Haven chisels, which are quite a bit older than I am, have the exact same oxidation patten on them. I should take some pics & post them over in the metal section, to see if some guru there knows what it means.

And you're allowed to have favourites among your hand tools. Justr don't tell them, or they'll get big-headed, & the other tools will be jealous & not work for you......

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

By co-incidence, I was about to contact you. I'm preparing an article for AWR at the moment (which may or may not ever get to press, of course) and I would like to provide some links to a few web sites. So I am hoping you wouldn't mind my giving your web site as a useful source of ideas, especially for handle shapes and thge PDF of tooth templates?

Cheers,

Hi Ian,

No problem, no need to ask really, but thanks. I'd be thinking of including a few other sites with handle templates to include...

Saw Handle Patterns
http://www.tgiag.com/saw-handle-scans.html

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by IanW

Funny you should mention that. You have probably filed about 1,000 times as many saws as I have, but if you'd asked me, I would have said there is a huge variation in 'fileability' of both old saws & new metal. I sharpened an old Disston back saw for a friend a few months back & it was like the proverbial hobs of hell - not much life left in the file when I was finished with that one (& it set ok, so it wasn't brittle - weird!). The saw plate from the bulk buy is the same as that used by a well-known sawmaker, & is supposed to be Swedish steel sawplate. I noticed it was a bit variable to file, mostly at the gilloutined edges, so I put that down to work-hardening. After filing the 'shop' edge down a bit, they are much better, but can still have a few spots that make the file skate.

As for rust, well, all steels are mostly iron, so if you supply them with oxygen and a bit of humidity, any brew will still make you lots of oxide unless it's genuine 'stainless' steel. What is interesting is the different surface patterns you get. I don't mind fine blotching and light, even oxidation, but some steels pit severely, with those deep "lightening strike" patterns. At one stage, I was sure this was associated with high chromium content, but now I'm not so sure that's the cause of it . I see it most on 'modern' steel, but it's certainly not a post WW2 phenomenon, because my much-loved old New Haven chisels, which are quite a bit older than I am, have the exact same oxidation patten on them. I should take some pics & post them over in the metal section, to see if some guru there knows what it means.

And you're allowed to have favourites among your hand tools. Justr don't tell them, or they'll get big-headed, & the other tools will be jealous & not work for you......

Cheers,

ah, great conversation, wish we were having a beer while mulling this over. no, with some old saws and depending on the file (brand, quality etc) they wont last long at all (you might not believe it but some hard old saws i have used maybe 8 or so files on one saw, very hard saws mind, above average), but the feel and sound of the old saws steels against the file often sounds better than say against the new saws (if you cut the hardened edges off and start from new), the swedish steels are meant be around around 48-51 (i think?), i didnt notice they said Swedish though, some (most) are blue and not many (if any) are polished which sounds more ideal for some saws plates, old saws might look better with blue plate but new looks better with polished....i'd like to give them a go before i critically compared them to the old saws, would be a blast for me me though, i'd love the comparison after doing the drudgery of old old saws for so long

cheers
chippy