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  1. #1
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    Apr 2019
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    Newcastle
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    Default 2nd table saw: Doing my head in

    Afternoon all:

    I'm sorry that this topic has been done to death and here I am, throwing another handful of dirt on the grave. I've been mucking around with woodworking now for a year or more and enjoying it. I'm making the odd bit of furniture with some more lined up, making things for the wife and her hobbies and generally having a good time not launching things downrange using my el-cheapo Ryobi contractor saw. Having to measure the wood first (because the ruler is rubbish) and clamp the other end of the fence is getting a little tiring, as is sawing without a riving knife or splitter because the guard is a giant pain in the rear. I'm thinking its time to upgrade.

    I have a budget of around about $2k, +/- a little. While I don't have a 15 amp plug available, I do have a 15 amp circuit in the house and one can be run I'm sure. We wear P2 masks under the house so dust is just whatever it will be. Generally I expect to be working with pine/plywood etc, maybe some other woods down the track when I'm actually getting good. I do like the idea of a bolt on router table. Space can be a slight issue so I do like the idea of having it on wheels so I can scoot it here and there.

    So I started looking. The Harvey HW110LGE-30 seems to be universally loved and is around about the right price but not available until August at BBTA (can't find it anywhere else for a comparable price). Then I hear that it just a rebadged Grizzly and maybe I could buy the same thing somewhere else with maybe a local support network that would be just as good! Hooray! I think. Then I found more table saws that I could poke a stick at and I'm hopelessly lost. Hares and Forbes, Carbatec, Harvey, I've no idea. Some look the same, some don't, there's a hi-lo fence, a lo-hi fence, an aloha fence and I'm expecting any moment to find one with a built in camera that only turns on when you start swearing.

    I'm getting to the stage where I'm going to go "F#(&# it, buying the Harvey" (on turns the camera). I suppose my main concern with the Harvey is local support/warranty etc. Can anyone supply some much needed guidance to a rather confused IT guy who just wants a saw that'll last him a good few years that'll give him some faithful service?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Australia
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    23

    Default

    +1 for the Harvey, I got mine about 18 months ago. For the price, you can't go wrong. I got mine from BBT on eBay with a 20% off everything discount code.

    The 30mm arbor opens up a range of possibilities for professional grade saw blades.

    It's worth the wait in my opinion shyness you happen to find an awesome deal on a used Hammer machine.

    Beyond the motor, there's not much that can go wrong.

    Obviously as with any cabinet saw, you'll have to align the top to the blade, a magnetic dial indicator is your friend there.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Mexico. Actual Mexico not Victoria.
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    418

    Default

    Then I hear that it just a rebadged Grizzly
    Looks like my Laguna, albeit a kind of mirror image of it. The specs look pretty good, do yourself a favor and just buy it then save up for an Incra fence system.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Australia
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    23

    Default

    Harvey is made by Laguna.

  6. #5
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    Jun 2015
    Location
    Mexico. Actual Mexico not Victoria.
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    Default

    Well that explains that then.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    27,757

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrazedLog View Post
    I have a budget of around about $2k, +/- a little. While I don't have a 15 amp plug available, I do have a 15 amp circuit in the house and one can be run I'm sure. We wear P2 masks under the house so dust is just whatever it will be. Generally I expect to be working with pine/plywood etc, maybe some other woods down the track when I'm actually getting good. I do like the idea of a bolt on router table. Space can be a slight issue so I do like the idea of having it on wheels so I can scoot it here and there.
    Having a 15A circuit in the house is kinda neither here nor there if it already has something plugged into it. Legally only one appliance/machine can be connected to a 15A circuit so a new dedicated 15A circuit will need to be run from the breaker box to your work place under the house.

    If you work area is enclosed and you don't collect the dust you should wear masks all the time you work in that space - this becomes a right PITA especially when you dont have to. Perhaps consider at least setting up some ventilation to extract the fine dust - depending on the area involved even a couple of bathroom extractor fans is better than nothing. It's even more important if you cut even small amounts of MDF.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle
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    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Having a 15A circuit in the house is kinda neither here nor there if it already has something plugged into it. Legally only one appliance/machine can be connected to a 15A circuit so a new dedicated 15A circuit will need to be run from the breaker box to your work place under the house.

    If you work area is enclosed and you don't collect the dust you should wear masks all the time you work in that space - this becomes a right PITA especially when you dont have to. Perhaps consider at least setting up some ventilation to extract the fine dust - depending on the area involved even a couple of bathroom extractor fans is better than nothing. It's even more important if you cut even small amounts of MDF.
    The 15A was connected to a spa bath that has long ceased to be so it will be the only thing. But good to know thanks, I had no idea about that restriction.

    We do have a 1 or 2HP extractor doohicky. Its nothing amazing that is largely used after the fact, not during. As soon as we start cutting, sanding or otherwise producing dust, the masks go on. MDF isn't used much its mostly ply. Were looking at getting a couple of 3M respirators with a couple of filters (p2 + formaldehyde filter) because its an underhouse area that is bricked in. Not a lot I can do unless I start knocking holes in the walls which is probably not a great idea structurally.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    1,014

    Default

    Looks like you're local - you're welcome to pop around and try my sawstop sometime. I paid slightly more than your budget for a year old upgraded machine. pm me.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    337

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    Filling the internals of machines with sawdust isn’t great, for causing rust, for causing fires, for helping rats make nests and eating wiring etc. I would strongly recommend you hook that dust extractor up to the 100mm cabinet port on the harvey and collect it right away. You’ll still need the mask, but work is more fun when your tools run better and not having to cleanup at the end of the task makes working a lot more fun!

  11. #10
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    Jul 2012
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    perth
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.ellis View Post
    Harvey is made by Laguna.
    I believe its the other way round.

  12. #11
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    Apr 2019
    Location
    Newcastle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin_Turner View Post
    Filling the internals of machines with sawdust isn’t great, for causing rust, for causing fires, for helping rats make nests and eating wiring etc. I would strongly recommend you hook that dust extractor up to the 100mm cabinet port on the harvey and collect it right away. You’ll still need the mask, but work is more fun when your tools run better and not having to cleanup at the end of the task makes working a lot more fun!
    Yeah once I get a new saw it'll be connected up to it: the ryobi has a very small dust port that is much smaller than the hose. Thanks to those who've replied and some who've offered help and suggestions via PM, it is much appreciated. I'm now at the stage where its really down to the carbatec version of the Harvey (local supplier, no 15 amp needs to be run, tiny bit cheaper) or the cheapest sawstop. I'm slightly leaning away from the sawstop because while I love the safety aspect of it, I can see that it only takes care of one side: me putting my body part into the blade. Kickbacks are still a risk. Another aspect that I'm considering is that say I do get the saws will I become complacent around other dangerous power tools as well because the "most dangerous" one is now perhaps less so?

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
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    27,757

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrazedLog View Post
    Yeah once I get a new saw it'll be connected up to it: the ryobi has a very small dust port that is much smaller than the hose. Thanks to those who've replied and some who've offered help and suggestions via PM, it is much appreciated. I'm now at the stage where its really down to the carbatec version of the Harvey (local supplier, no 15 amp needs to be run, tiny bit cheaper) or the cheapest sawstop. I'm slightly leaning away from the sawstop because while I love the safety aspect of it, I can see that it only takes care of one side: me putting my body part into the blade. Kickbacks are still a risk. Another aspect that I'm considering is that say I do get the saws will I become complacent around other dangerous power tools as well because the "most dangerous" one is now perhaps less so?
    Contrary to popular impressions Table saws are one of the safer machines in Pro and DIY workshop.
    Accident statistics compiled over many years show that in terms of incidents per numbers of users;
    Bands saws and RAS are involved in 4X more incidents than TS
    Drill presses are involved in 4.5X more incidents
    Jointer/planers/Thicknessers are involved in 7X more incidents

    The most dangerous machines to an individual tends to be the machines that are not used often enough to gain sufficient confidence in safe use.

    Pros and DIY have similar accident rates, the explanation being that DIY tend to be more tentative and Pros of course are exposed for longer and some develop over confidence and hence get slack.

    In terms of total time of use of a particular machine before first incident the TS is also the safest.
    It takes, on average, 14X less time for a user to experience their first BS incident compared to their first TS incident
    58X less time when using an RAS
    For Jointer.planer/thicknessers it's 23x less.
    For DPs its 12x.

    Maybe ts the fact that you can usually clearly see the sharp large teeth on a TS blade spinning @ 4000 rpm that keeps the incident rate down.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Default


    Originally Posted by m.ellis
    Harvey is made by Laguna.



    I believe its the other way round.
    Harvey make a lot of machinery, which is re-badged. They even now make (and own) Bridge City Tools, which is why these are now available from Lee Valley and Carbatec. Harvey are capable of building to the highest standards. But, like all the factories based in China, they build to specs and to a price. The Carbatec tablesaw may look like the Harvey, but the specs may be quite different. I wonder if anyone here has looked at a Harvey and/or Laguna and Carbatec side-by-side. I am curious how the Carbatec stacks up against those two.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by derekcohen View Post

    Originally Posted by m.ellis
    Harvey is made by Laguna.





    Harvey make a lot of machinery, which is re-badged. They even now make (and own) Bridge City Tools, which is why these are now available from Lee Valley and Carbatec. Harvey are capable of building to the highest standards. But, like all the factories based in China, they build to specs and to a price. The Carbatec tablesaw may look like the Harvey, but the specs may be quite different. I wonder if anyone here has looked at a Harvey and/or Laguna and Carbatec side-by-side. I am curious how the Carbatec stacks up against those two.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    I haven't seen the Carbatec in the flesh, but it certainly looks extremely similar. Aside from a 5/8" vs 30mm arbor and a 2.5hp vs 3hp motor on the harvey and hdpe on the fence faces vs an aluminium extrusion on the fence. Basically the same differences as the Laguna vs the Harvey, aside from the 2.5hp motor. The Carbatec is on sale atm for $1999- so if they are local to you it's definitely worth a look. You'd get local support and potentially savw money on shipping etc as well.

    Cheers, Dom

  16. #15
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    Mar 2015
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    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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    Or buy the 2016 second hand Hammer K3 Winner on sale at the moment for about $6k and be done with it

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