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31st December 2018, 08:43 PM #16
this Grab a bargain on a SawStop was posted elsewhere on the forums. The seller is asking $1400
regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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31st December 2018 08:43 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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1st January 2019, 02:25 AM #17
Ty, if I was starting from scratch with $6000 to spend, this is how I would spend it:
Harvey tablesaw ($2200): https://www.bbta.com.au/harvey-hw110lge-30-table-saw/
JetJPT-310 12 inch Jointer Thicknesser with spiral cutter head (approx $4000): https://www.carbatec.com.au/machiner...th-spiral-head
That's it. And you still need dust control. However these two machines will form a phenomenal basis for a wonderful workshop. Forget the Sawstop, especially a small contractor type. The Harvey cabinet saw has a wonderful reputation and, as a table saw for building furniture, it is a better machine than any contractor saw. Safety is something that is in the mind. I treat all machinery with respect.
The Jet combination thicknesser-jointer is about the next best thing to sliced bread. I have a Hammer combo, and absolutely love it. The extra funds were there to afford it. If I had not been able to go the extra distance, the Jet was my next choice.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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1st January 2019, 12:13 PM #18
Further on from Derek's post above (which I think is a good choice of kit given the budget you're aiming for), if you wanted to start using the equipment quickly, you could keep an eye on the marketplace here.
A cheap and cheerful dust extractor that you move from one machine to another can be bought quite cheaply - I've seen them going for $200. Treat it well, use it as long as you need it, and then move it on to the next person as your funds build up to do "proper" dust extraction. This is exactly how I'm running at the moment, and whilst it's a bit fiddly and time consuming, it works. I'm planning on properly fitting out my space, and am planning on building in "proper" dust extraction at that time.
And I pray no-one dobs me in to Bob for this comment <jks>
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1st January 2019, 12:21 PM #19Taking a break
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There's nothing cheerful about cheap dust collection. If you can't afford a good setup, buy a good mask and wear it ALL THE TIME. I didn't and now I have to deal with rhinitis essentially forever.
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1st January 2019, 01:15 PM #20Novice
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Hey Derek,
The Jet jointer thicknesser is definitely a nice piece of kit. What would the comparison be between the Harvey table saw and the Laguna Fusione F3? much difference between them? They seem very similar.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Ty
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1st January 2019, 01:35 PM #21
Ty, I believe that Harvey manufacture the Laguna saws. I suspect that in the USA, Harvey also manufactures Grizzly tools, which have an excellent reputation. They are all very, very similar externally, and I am sure that they are near-to-dammit the same under the skin. I would get the one you fancy.
With regard to dust collection - Bob is likely to bash me for saying this - unless one can afford to install high quality equipment (3+ hp as well as 6" ducting), then one might as well just consider dust collection to be a broom and use what is adequate for the time being. Do not need to spend much now until you can afford it, which is desirable at some point. Until then, wear a mask and ventilate the workshop. I have a double garage (half for machines; the other half has to park a car at night), only a 2 hp Carbatec plus Super Dust Deputy plus 5" hoses. Lower efficiency overall. However I have double garage doors and a back door. These are opened and the workshop is ventilated. Plus I do much of my work with hand tools.
Eventually, you will want a bandsaw as well. If you plan to resaw boards, wait until you can get a decent 18" machine. You need the size, power and mass to use carbide blades (as they are thicker and do not bend well on smaller wheels), which are the way to go for our hard woods.
Regards from Perth
DerekVisit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.
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1st January 2019, 02:12 PM #22SENIOR MEMBER
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I have a Luguna Fusion table saw. Very pleased with it. Plenty of power and cut accurately straight out of the box. The newer models have a few nice changes that would make them even better.
I would go with at least a 3hp dust collector right from the start. I have a 2HP modified as per posts on this site but it not quite up to it.
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1st January 2019, 02:41 PM #23.
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The way I look at wood dust control - it's all about risk minimisation.
The risk from exposure to wood dust can be broadly grouped into two types.
A long term risk (I'll call that one A) that over time you will accumulate enough exposure to wood dust (wood dust levels x time) to start something specifically nasty inside you particular to your individual generic make up, health history, and the length of your grandmother's nose. Wood dust exposure also acts like other dusts to increase the risk of pulmonary health problems and cardiovascular diseases. Strokes in particular correlate with higher dust exposures and is thought to be a reason why some apparently very fit people still experience strokes.
There no set times or exposures for this risk. The current OHS levels are way out of date - it's an individual thing. Even under high overall exposure some people never develop a problem and others may get it in spades. The older and younger you are the less exposure you can generally tolerate.
The other risk (B) has no time frame and comes out of left field at any time. This is an almost overnight sensitivity to wood dust. It can be exposure independent but usually happens after a relatively short, intense over-exposure that tips a sensitivity balance somewhere inside you. About 10% of the population has some sensitivity to wood dust and a few % cannot even touch some woods without being affected. Once this sensitivity is triggered you may no longer be able to work with wood unless dust levels are well managed, through to maybe not being even able to touch wood.
To minimize both types of risks, full time wood workers whose livelihood depends on working with wood, or serious amateurs whose raison d'être is woodworking, should be targeting 3HP or larger DC and 6" ducting.
If you are a (youngish) weekend warrior and spend only a few hours woodworking a week in a shed and not concerned about type B (ie if you develop a sensitivity you are happy enough to give woodworking away and go do something else) then I also don't see a need for a 3HP or larger DC and 6" ducting if you have adequate ventilation. I know I sound like a broken record but those of you that have been following my posts will know that for most weekend warriors, I have regularly recommend that small project fine dust can usually be managed with appropriate ventilation. By appropriate I don't mean just open doors and windows but forced ventilation using exhaust type fans.
Even though i'm almost full time in my own shed, the reason I have the 3HP or larger DC and 6" ducting setup is not because of the type A risk, because I don't do that much wood working anyway. The main reason is because I lost my sense of smell for 6 weeks about 17 years ago and this is what frightened me into pursuing the dust demon. I'm not sure if I still have any sensitivities but I just don't want to find out if I do or not.
Apart from ventilation, other ways to lower risks are
Use hand tools
Buy pre-cut and dressed timber.
Avoid/minimize sanding and resawing.
Perform dustier activities outside
Locate and or "enclose and vent" DC's and Vacs outside the shed.
Keep the shed clean.
Last resort - wear a mask.
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1st January 2019, 07:05 PM #24SENIOR MEMBER
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Bob, a quick google search doesn’t bring up anything regarding dust and stroke do you have a source ? Also it’s been on my mind (and sorry to hijack the thread) but what dust risk do hand tools pose ? I re-call someone on here bought a dust meter of some sort and was surprised by the reading while using hand tools. Never been able to find the post again.
thanks, Sam
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1st January 2019, 07:24 PM #25.
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Its quite new (study completed in March 2017) and started to get publicity around mid 2017 and much of rest of the medical research and literature has not caught up.
Developments in Dust Sensor tech
Here's a more specific one cardio vascular disease looking at at the effects of climate change raising dust levels in SW USA and the followup implications on deaths and hospitalizations
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10...26/aabf20/meta
Depending on which predictive models are used, . . .annual premature mortality attributable to fine dust exposure could increase between 140 (24%) and 750 (130%) deaths for adults aged ≥30 years, and annual hospitalizations due to cardiovascular and respiratory illnesses could increase between 170 (59%) admissions to 860 (300%) admissions for adults aged ≥65 years in the Southwest relative to the present-day.
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2nd January 2019, 10:03 AM #26SENIOR MEMBER
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I have a 12" Woodman combination - I was after the 10" but nobody had them for over 6 mths and I managed to get an upgrade to 12" for an extra $400 (because I politely stated that they had the 10" advertised on their website for the whole time it was out of stock). It is the same as the Jet.
I realise others recommend a saw other than Sawstop for your money but I bought the small Sawstop Jobsite due to lack of space. Plus I feel more comfortable when my daughter is using the workshop even though she is just as safety conscious as I am. Total Tools have a number of 20% "discount" nights through out the year. I picked up a Kreg router table plus a number of accessories for both items for the total price of rrp $1990 for the Sawstop. I'm still grinning with both of these
Jane
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2nd January 2019, 10:57 AM #27GOLD MEMBER
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If you have the space I have a lot of trouble coming to terms with the cost of a Sawstop cabinet saw when there's something like this available - Deal of the Century - Sliding Table Saw - at a similar or lower price.
If the saw is for the use of one person that person is one of those less inclined to have accidents then I don't see the extra value of a Sawstop over a Harvey or Laguna, it's a huge premium to pay for a single feature. And before I get howled down about the 'less inclined to have accidents' comment if there is doubt in your mind about the veracity of that statement go in to any men's shed and have a look at some of the things that go on.
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2nd January 2019, 05:31 PM #28GOLD MEMBER
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That link didn't work for me but I see your point. This is a highly personal choice, there are many options and there is definitely no right or wrong choice.
I found the SawStop cabinet saw to be a quality machine in all respects. I'm no expert at all but that quality is why I'm happy with it. I don't even use it everyday and I'm pleased I got it.
I've never tripped the safety feature so that's not the main reason I enjoy using it. In fact, safety feature or not, when I see a spinning blade I'm not in a rush to get my fingers too close to it.
However consider this. Yesterday I was using the drill press with my back turned and ear plugs on. My wife who should know better by now came up behind to within 3m of me and clapped her hands to get my attention. She just doesn't appreciate the dangers even though I've explained it to her 3 times already. That could have ended very badly for me.
You just can't control everything.
That said, my jointer is decidedly unsafe, the dust collection has a long way to go, etc etc so it's not like a safety feature on a single machine is a panecea. I view it as a process. Slowly making my workspace safer incrementally.
Sent from my SM-G935F using TapatalkMy YouTube channel: https://youtu.be/2_KPRN6I9SE
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2nd January 2019, 06:26 PM #29GOLD MEMBER
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The link works fine for me. The saw that Chris Parks is talking about in that thread is this one - https://iwoodlike.com/product/machin...ding-panel-saw. I can't believe that you can buy so much saw for so little money!
I totally agree that the choice of a table/panel saw is a real horses for courses conundrum. Having seen a Sawstop cabinet saw in action I'm totally unsurprised that you're happy with yours. I'd love a saw like that; or a Harvey; or a Laguna, but unfortunately for the moment I'm stuck with my old contractor saw. When I use the saw the Incra TS/LS makes me smile though.
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2nd January 2019, 08:50 PM #30Novice
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Hey Aldav,
Just been looking at this sliding panel saw you suggested and would love to know more about it. I have never used a panel saw so not sure how they are different from a standard cabinet saw apart from the sliding element. How do these go ripping down timbers? Especially longer boards as Im wanting to rip long boards for doing table tops and the like. Love to have a run down how this would go.
Thanks again,
Ty
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