Thread: Advice requested from experienced table saw users

I’ve been using tablesaws all my life (I’m 54). In my opinion, the extra money you pay for the sawstop technology is better spent on other machines, after buying a standard tablesaw that will do the job you want to do. I just can’t see the justification for the extra over amount they want, but, I have been trained to be careful with saws, and I realise there are people who are new to the business/hobby who are still picking it up, From my professional perspective, they aren’t worth the extra money.

When I did a guitar making course at Thomas Lloyds in 2008 I noticed his machine shop did not have a table saw but he did have two bandsaws which while making my guitar made a lot of sense. Actually there was small specialised TS for cutting the fret slots but that's all it did and there are other ways of doing this.

I reckon unless you need to cut panel goods or rip a lot of stuff fast (seeing as you're getting a track saw and these not really required for guitar making) then you might better better served by a high quality bandsaw and a basic chop saw.

FWIW don't be blasé about using any saws. The saw that cuts the least numbers of fingers per hour of use is a table saw. This is the case for both professionals and DIYers. Why it cuts more fingers per hour of use I'm not sure - my take is that it's probably because they look scarier than other saws.

I have only used a triton as a table-saw so I have somewhat narrow view on this topic. I believe any saw can be used safely when guards and push sticks are used. Ie use as intended and used where practical.
Around 20 years ago after a poor nights sleep I was cutting out recesses in some studs. As I was not cutting through the studs I had to take off the blade guard, this was perfectly safe as the studs protected me from the blade. The next job required I cut down some door jam timber, I realised I had not reinstated the guard and thought it will be fine as I on,y had three cuts to perform through the timber before doing more recess cuts. I did stupidly nick my thumb it could have been much worse. This was easily avoided had I not been to lazy to reinstate the guard when I realised.

I had thought a saw stop would be a no brainer as a backup to avoid this avoidable situation from happening again. I am working 7 days a week a present and wood work is a hobby for me so I have no current need for a better option than the triton.

I have been reading the comments around false triggers and overrides being used. My advice is the fear you have is heathy don’t ignore it, don’t be lazy and use your Triton for a few jobs before sending it on to another owner.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

My thoughts were the same as BobL, why not a band saw? A well tuned bandsaw is a versatile machine,takes up less space, gentler on your pinkies, cuts straight, curved or beveled. I have a mate who is a Luthier and there is no table saw in his shop. Two bandsaws, scrollsaw and a sliding compound mitre saw and thats it.

Originally Posted by rustynail

My thoughts were the same as BobL, why not a band saw? A well tuned bandsaw is a versatile machine,takes up less space, gentler on your pinkies, cuts straight, curved or beveled. I have a mate who is a Luthier and there is no table saw in his shop. Two bandsaws, scrollsaw and a sliding compound mitre saw and thats it.

The guitar school also had two Bandsaws (14 and a 19"), A drill press, a 24" drum and a 6x9" belt sander (behind me in the photo).
The specialised TS is on the LHS with the 0range topped face child on top. It uses a small radius thin kerfed blade and templates to cut the fret slots in neck boards.
He had chop saw which he rarely used.
Every thing else (apart from some small routers ) was done with hand tools.
MontsalvatMacRoom.jpg

Admittedly the luthier did get a lot of stock (likes sides, buttons and tops, and neck blanks) cut off site by his timber supplier.

Thanks all, I really appreciate the feedback and sharing your collective wisdom.

I have a bandsaw (albeit only a Hare and Forbes 14 inch - I should have purchased a better quality one at the time), drill press, sliding mitre saw, spindle sander, disc sander etc. However, most of what I do is with hand tools, and a couple of routers. It is just recently I wanted to build some more jigs and the ability to make very square, precise and quick cuts would be great. My bandsaw isn't great, and drifts a bit.

Yes, most of the timber I use is already provided in dimensions close to final.

I don't have the experience with a table saw, hence my nervousness. The thing I have taken away from all of your advice is I should develop more comfort and expertise with a table saw - I will go and visit my local men's shed and learn from the decades of experience there first. Also I might redirect those funds to a long coveted dual drum sander.

Thanks again all.

Hi Dan,

There are those of us on the forums who have a SawStop and are exceedingly happy with them. I think they're great value. Expensive, yes, but in the same price bracket as other quality cabinet saws like Powermatic, but with the bonus of the safety aspect.

Sliding saws are another good option, but in a whole other price bracket, and you need to learn to use it differently to a normal cabinet saw, otherwise you won't realise the safety benefits inherent in the design.

Having said that, I will also point you towards a good bandsaw for what you're wanting to do. Take the money you were going to spend on the SawStop, and buy the best bandsaw you can afford (Felder, SCM etc.)

As others have said, you'll be surprised how accurately a good bandsaw can cut with a fence.

I know a guy who builds guitar in NZ who has 2 bandsaw, I know for sure one of them is a SCM S540P.
I dont think you will benefit much from a sawstop if you intend to build guitars, there is a huge gap between Triton 2000 and saw stop.

Get a properly built bandsaw (not shiny aluminium/sheet metal crap) invest your money in your blades. I have had 4 bandsaws to date. SCM S400P, Wadkin B700, Sicar Top6, and now a Taiwanese 24 inch. the Wadkin is the oldest but the best of them all. sold cos its too big for my workshop. you need a proper factory.

Hi Bob,

Out of curiosity what data is out there for this type of thing? I am not doubting but with my background I am genuinely interested in this type of enquiry.

Something that also springs to mind is severity of injuries. The thing that bothers me most about using a tablesaw is not so much the chance of injury but the severity.

I surmise - but happy to be proved wrong - that a bandsaw injury (while potentially nasty) will on average be less severe than a table saw injury (particularly taking kickback injuries into account).

The other factor that seems relevant if you're considering safety in total is whether a table saw, if available, becomes an attractive option for jobs you would otherwise do without a machine, or with a much safer machine. I see on videos some people who are handy with a tablesaw seem to use it more (ie for joinery, cutting dadoes, rebates, et cetera). If having the tablesaw means you spend more hours on machines than you otherwise would, then even if the rate of injury per hour is lower you're still increasing the total risk.

Put in other words, if you would ordinary cut (say) tenons by hand but start using a tablesaw for them (whereas you wouldn't with a bandsaw), it might be safer than a bandsaw but still more chances of injury.

Chris

Originally Posted by BobL

When I did a guitar making course at Thomas Lloyds in 2008 I noticed his machine shop did not have a table saw but he did have two bandsaws which while making my guitar made a lot of sense. Actually there was small specialised TS for cutting the fret slots but that's all it did and there are other ways of doing this.

I reckon unless you need to cut panel goods or rip a lot of stuff fast (seeing as you're getting a track saw and these not really required for guitar making) then you might better better served by a high quality bandsaw and a basic chop saw.

FWIW don't be blasé about using any saws. The saw that cuts the least numbers of fingers per hour of use is a table saw. This is the case for both professionals and DIYers. Why it cuts more fingers per hour of use I'm not sure - my take is that it's probably because they look scarier than other saws.

Originally Posted by Cgcc

Hi Bob,

Out of curiosity what data is out there for this type of thing? I am not doubting but with my background I am genuinely interested in this type of enquiry.

Something that also springs to mind is severity of injuries. The thing that bothers me most about using a tablesaw is not so much the chance of injury but the severity.

I surmise - but happy to be proved wrong - that a bandsaw injury (while potentially nasty) will on average be less severe than a table saw injury (particularly taking kickback injuries into account).

The other factor that seems relevant if you're considering safety in total is whether a table saw, if available, becomes an attractive option for jobs you would otherwise do without a machine, or with a much safer machine. I see on videos some people who are handy with a tablesaw seem to use it more (ie for joinery, cutting dadoes, rebates, et cetera). If having the tablesaw means you spend more hours on machines than you otherwise would, then even if the rate of injury per hour is lower you're still increasing the total risk.

Put in other words, if you would ordinary cut (say) tenons by hand but start using a tablesaw for them (whereas you wouldn't with a bandsaw), it might be safer than a bandsaw but still more chances of injury.

Chris

Bandsaws injuries can be very severe if the blade snaps and the broken end goes through your hand, I have seen this happen, the operator didn't bother to lower the top guard to just above his work piece, thus allowing the blade to travel wherever it wanted once it had snapped.

Originally Posted by Cgcc

Hi Bob,

Out of curiosity what data is out there for this type of thing? I am not doubting but with my background I am genuinely interested in this type of enquiry.

Something that also springs to mind is severity of injuries. The thing that bothers me most about using a tablesaw is not so much the chance of injury but the severity.

I surmise - but happy to be proved wrong - that a bandsaw injury (while potentially nasty) will on average be less severe than a table saw injury (particularly taking kickback injuries into account).

Tool-Related Injuries Among Amateur and Professional Woodworkers.
Becker, Thomas; Trinkaus, Kathryn; Buckley, David
Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine. 38(10):1032-1035, October 1996.

The team made a detailed study of 283 (61 Pros and 222 DIYer) ww related incidents.

Table saws had an incident rate of 0.7 per 1000 hours of use.
Bandsaws were 4x worse 2.8 incidents per 1000 hours of use, about the same as radial arm saws.
Planer/thicknesses are about double that rate although I think they have become somewhat safer since.

18% of the DIYers incidents were on a TS while for Pros it was 30% almost certainly reflecting hours of exposure.
For hammer use, DIY and Pros report the same incidence rate of 36%, for chisels it was 21% for DIYers and 31% for pros.

I watched a technician saw his thumb off with a small bandsaw at work, he was so busy yabbering away that for about a second didn't even know he'd done it and in all the drama of getting him off to hospital the thumb got lost! Sad bit was he was an accomplished harpist, an antique harp expert and tuner. Over about 10 years he learned to use the base of his amputated thumb on which a callus developed so he could at least tune the harps. He could still play slow tunes.

I agree that that a table saw has the potential of much greater injury, including death. Kickback can be really serious. One of the worst I've heard of is a long sliver of oowd entering an operators arm at the wrist and penetrating all the way up to and out of the elbow. They had to almost take the guys arm part to get the splinters out. Based on another source ~40-45% of TS accidents are kickback related something a Sawstop won't fix. However it is something that good work practices can make a real difference in.

When visitors to my shed see my 120cc/8.5HP chainsaw with a 60" bar they automatically think that this must by far be the most dangerous thing in my shed. However, while it probably says more about familiarity of use than anything else, I have slightly more respect for my 3HP TS than for that chainsaw.

Originally Posted by Cgcc

Hi Bob,

Out of curiosity what data is out there for this type of thing? I am not doubting but with my background I am genuinely interested in this type of enquiry.

Something that also springs to mind is severity of injuries. The thing that bothers me most about using a tablesaw is not so much the chance of injury but the severity.

I surmise - but happy to be proved wrong - that a bandsaw injury (while potentially nasty) will on average be less severe than a table saw injury (particularly taking kickback injuries into account).

Tool-Related Injuries Among Amateur and Professional Woodworkers.
Becker, Thomas; Trinkaus, Kathryn; Buckley, David
Journal of Occupational & Environmental Medicine. 38(10):1032-1035, October 1996.

The team made a detailed study of 283 (61 Pros and 222 DIYer) ww related incidents.

Table saws had an incident rate of 0.7 per 1000 hours of use.
Bandsaws were 4x worse 2.8 incidents per 1000 hours of use, about the same as radial arm saws.
Planer/thicknesses are about double that rate although I think they have become somewhat safer since.

18% of the DIYers incidents were on a TS while for Pros it was 30% almost certainly reflecting hours of exposure.
For hammer use, DIY and Pros report the same incidence rate of 36%, for chisels it was 21% for DIYers and 31% for pros.

I watched a technician saw his thumb off with a small bandsaw at work, he was so busy yabbering away that for about a second didn't even know he'd done it and in all the drama of getting him off to hospital the thumb got lost! Sad bit was he was an accomplished harpist, an antique harp expert and tuner. Over about 10 years he learned to use the base of his amputated thumb on which a callus developed so he could at least tune the harps. He could still play slow tunes.

I agree that that a table saw has the potential of much greater injury, including death. Kickback can be really serious. One of the worst I've heard of is a long sliver of oowd entering an operators arm at the wrist and penetrating all the way up to and out of the elbow. They had to almost take the guys arm part to get the splinters out. Based on another source ~40-45% of TS accidents are kickback related something a Sawstop won't fix. However it is something that good work practices can make a real difference in.

When visitors to my shed see my 120cc/8.5HP chainsaw with a 60" bar they automatically think that this must by far be the most dangerous thing in my shed. However, while it probably says more about familiarity of use than anything else, I have slightly more respect for my 3HP TS than for that chainsaw.

“Based on another source ~40-45% of TS accidents are kickback related something a Sawstop won't fix.”

this is a solid point, which shouldn’t be ignored.

Well I don't know if my 2c is of any use.


Some of the answers above seem to have missed the OP wants the TS to make straight square cuts for jigs. A TS is next to useless for making guitars.


The question IMO is whether a TS is worth the space, money and hassle ? They are big and reasonably expensive. Are you going to get the use out of it ? Mine is the center of my wood shop but that's because I do long straight cuts. You can straighten and square stock on a planer thicknesser after you rough it out with a hand or hand held saw. A planer thicknesser takes a fraction of the space. $ vary.


So could you consider a good used PT plus a track saw ? Less space, probably less money, very versatile. Or just bite the bullet and hand plane the stock ? I guess it depends on frequency of use.


All WW tools are dangerous but powered ones probably more so. I do wonder some times whether I'd have been better off investing in good quality hand tools and just dealing with the time and effort, remembering power tools come with noise dust safety space issues.


And think of the cardio