Thread: Should I buy a combination machine

I am surprised they were so close in price TTTT. Make sure you get the in handle height gauge, is a must have due to its repeatable accuracy.

Hey Rudy, Have you been able to inspect both machines?

I own a Hammer A3-31 and an E series minimax table saw the Hammer is a hobby machine and the E Minimax is an entry level commercial machine that is in a completely different realm to the Hammer.

When I was buying 3 years ago the Minimax was way way more expensive.

Originally Posted by Rudyvm

Hi All, have received final prices for a number of units and have narrowed it down to the Hammer A3-41A and Minimax FS-41 EX, the Hammer came in $100.00 cheaper and also includes the extension tables to the planer deck which increases the length to 3000mm with the Minimax limited to the stock 2000mm, I could make/buy table extensions but given the Hammer includes them don't really see the point.

Otherwise the machines are evenly matched in terms of quality, power, capacity and both include mobility kits, delivery/set up and helical cutter heads.

Am very much leaning towards the Hammer and think I will push the button today, has been generally good feedback on the Hammer so am feeling pretty comfortable with that choice.

Really appreciate the feedback from all, has made the process a great deal less stressful.

Remember to check your machine when it arrives, hopefully no issues



You can see in the comment that Michael moved to FS41E and is happy.

SCM is not problem free and has its own issues from time to time (like all machines), I am not mechanically inclined but I was able to diagnose and resolve my SCM's issues without needing a tech to step in (they are not cheap!), the problem I am talking about here are not simple adjustment with a spanner/allen key but involve sensors, actuators...etc. when you open up the machine for service/replacement you will see where your money has been spent or not spent.

I feel that I need to add a comment here as a reality check.

An experience that still stands out for me was a visit to a professional workshop of a professional furniture maker about a year ago. He built really nice stuff, lots of traditional joinery, and medium to large pieces. His equipment was really middle-of-the-road Carbatec stuff. Absolutely nothing remotely in the same class as a Sawstop, Hammer, Felder, Minimax, etc. My (amateur) workshop was light years ahead of his in terms of quality/cost.

I visit many woodworking fori. Some of the professional power tool fraternity on these own top-of-the-range sliders, jointers, etc ..... and build boxes, or some obscure, simple wooden parts. Generally, cheap furniture out of sheet goods which are Dominoed together and then spray painted. They love talking about their great equipment, and how they plan to upgrade it! Upgrade it!!

Albert, I am really curious what you build to sell? I know that you do this part-time, and admire that you hold down a full time job as well as finding an hour or two each day to build something for sale. The equipment you have is mind boggling. Some of it is high-end pro equipment. My question is whether it is really needed - I don't doubt that it is a time saver (a little at any rate) or easier to set up, but is it essential for the work you do? What it has cost you must run to six figures.

My Hammer equipment is overkill for some (K3 slider, N4400 bandsaw, and A3-31 jointer/thicknesser). But, hey, I've been doing this for over 30 years, and earned it. I do not aspire to anything more expensive or grander as (1) I could justify the expense to my dear wife, and (2) it does all I want it to do, and reliably. I love these machines.

When looking at the K3, several years ago, I compared it with a SawStop. The K3 won out because it was a slider, but the SawStop was just as well built, and I would have been happy with the SS had I ended up with it. Now the SS is found in many (most) pro workshop in the USA. Many others have Grizzly (= Carbatec). No one complains.

I believe that comments such as "the Hammer is a hobby machine and the E Minimax is an entry level commercial machine" are misleading.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek, That is just my observation from owning these machines.
The Hammer A3 works fine for my (hobby) purposes, I think the comparative Minimax machine (FS30C) would be very similar. Felder themselves will tell you that this is their hobby range.
The Elite series machines are a step up in every way and if the cost is the same then I'd certainly opt for one of them.
I'm sure Rudy will be thrilled with whatever he gets.

Originally Posted by barramonday

Hi Derek, That is just my observation from owning these machines.
The Hammer A3 works fine for my (hobby) purposes, I think the comparative Minimax machine (FS30C) would be very similar. Felder themselves will tell you that this is their hobby range.
The Elite series machines are a step up in every way and if the cost is the same then I'd certainly opt for one of them.
I'm sure Rudy will be thrilled with whatever he gets.

My apology if it sounded as if I was having a go at you. I wasn't ... I just wanted to emphasise that the "hobby range" of Felder is still way better than many pros use. It does come down to cost and what one can afford (or desire).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

I feel that I need to add a comment here as a reality check.


Albert, I am really curious what you build to sell? I know that you do this part-time, and admire that you hold down a full time job as well as finding an hour or two each day to build something for sale. The equipment you have is mind boggling. Some of it is high-end pro equipment. My question is whether it is really needed - I don't doubt that it is a time saver (a little at any rate) or easier to set up, but is it essential for the work you do? What it has cost you must run to six figures.

Derek

Hi Derek, I really cant disclose what I sell on the internet... hope you understand.

Apart from full time job I also have a family with two young kids to look after, therefore I dont have a lot of time to spend in the workshop.

The high end machine reduces the setup time greatly and improved the repeatability, especially on the spindle moulder, this is exactly what I needed and is essential, but it does not make me a better woodworker.

Yes the machines do cost a bit, the list price of my new panel saw is 66k USD, which is close to 6 digit NZD/AUD. Do I need it? not really, any panel saw can rip a panel of plywood into 2 pieces, I bought it because I enjoy working with quality machines, we only live once, besides, my sales are close to 6 digit each year (with a lot of work behind the scene!). I feel the purchase is justified, guy gotta love his tools if he is making a buck or two from it.

In a way I really envy guys who make real joinery for the love of it, I do woodworking to support the family. I maybe able to do it with cheaper machinery, but its like truckies drive a Scania not a Foton, photographer use Hasselblad not a Samsung

Speaking of machine build quality, when I purchased my Felder AD951, I was quite happy with the build quality, I had a Robland combi before it. But when my SCM spindle moulder arrived, I was so impressed with the machine, it surpassed my expectation, I felt SCM should sack their marketing department, the online pamphlet and photos does not do the machine justice at all, the machine are very beefy in all aspect, and it shows - it weighs close to 1200kg. I can let a part timer use my SCM machines after proper training but I can't and won't let a part timer use my Felder because they will break/damage it. Anyhow within a couple of months of receiving the moulder I put a deposit down for the panel saw - there are only a few pictures and few sentences describing the saw on SCM's website, Felder has PAGES of info dedicated to their top of line panel saw, the Kappa 590 - the 590 came with Felder's Sawstop technology but way better.

Personally I think Rudy should be fine with any machine he chooses, Felder/Hammer is popular among owner operator and several great online forum, and the resale value is high. I might get more money for my AD951 than how much I paid for it...

Thanks Albert. You know that I was not being critical, just pointing out that you use the best you can because it brings you pleasure. And why not, you earned the right to do so, and you spend your money the way you wish. The opinion of others is irrelevant. Some spend on cars, some on hifi …. Good for you (meant sincerely).

You also confirm what I was saying early on - many purchase machines that are overkill and unnecessary. My point to make was that the pro level equipment is not needed in a home workshop … unless it really floats your boat.

Regards from Perth

Derek

There is some really great commentary here and many different viewpoints which all make sense depending on your individual perspective, is certainly not one size fits all and one right answer. We all have individual needs, some peoples pockets are a bit longer, some have more space, less space and the list goes on. Think all of the machines will do the job for now but a big factor for me is not having to go through the process again in a number of years when I have been able to transition into the next phase of my life and am able to get a bit more serious about what I am doing. I began the journey with classic hobbyist machines, caught the bug and see this as a rest of life decision. Am fortunate that I can afford a substantial upgrade however don't want to spend recklessly just because I can and need to find the proper middle ground. Would kill myself if I bought a machine that wasn't long term fit for purpose.

Will take a breath and let it all sink in noting that I still need final sign off from the home financial committee so need to be able to present a compelling case which might involve a bit of horse trading as my wife is currently in the market for a rather expensive kiln.

Cheers,

Rudy

Some data points for the financial review committee:

1. Combo machines have sliders. Sliders allow you to remain out of the danger zone unlike a cabinet saw.

2. Sharing a common chassis makes combos slightly cheaper than separates.

3. The combo machines discussed are European, and built to a high quality. They will last.

4. Further to #3, and the motto of the Felder and Festool owner: cry once.

😎

Originally Posted by Rudyvm

wife is currently in the market for a rather expensive kiln.

Cheers,

Rudy

Mrs P. is into machine embroidery, sewing, dress making etc in which she has formal recognised trade qualifications and you do not want to know how much sewing and embroidery machines cost. I have a really nice work shop which has mostly European machinery and she gets her sewing room similarly equipped so we never quibble about hobby purchases.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Mrs P. is into machine embroidery, sewing, dress making etc in which she has formal recognised trade qualifications and you do not want to know how much sewing and embroidery machines cost. I have a really nice work shop which has mostly European machinery and she gets her sewing room similarly equipped so we never quibble about hobby purchases.

Is kind of the position in which I find myself now Chris, have no idea about the world of dress making but a decent kiln comes in above $10k, not much less than the Hammer, the negotiations will be made easier by the fact that we both will need 20 Amp plugs, they will be in my shed so will be using the loss of valuable floor space as a negotiation tool

My A3-31 runs off a 15 amp GPO and has never given trouble but it is not a 3-41 so maybe that could be a factor.

My A3-31 and K3 slider both run off 15 amps. The N4400 (bandsaw) runs off 20 amp.

Regards from Perth

Derek