Thread: Should I buy a combination machine

Personally if you have the space having seperate machines setup and ready to go is the way......this is how I have it......but I can understand the attraction of a combination machine in tight spaces as long as you understand that you will need to convert from one to the other as part of the workflow process.

I have the Hammer. It is a quality machine, and the conversion from Jointer to Thicknesser doesn't take long and is quite manageable. Mine is about 10 years old (I bought it second hand) and I haven't used it nearly as much as I'd like to, but my new shed is almost finished! The only niggle I have with mine is that the fence is not great for the TS - but they may well have fixed that on later models. I'm planning on upgrading the fence when I can. I have the 3 phase model, and the TS is powerful and precise. Mine is on wheels, which in a small space is a must. The difference in build quality between this and the Carbatec saw I used to have is huge. It weighs 700kg! So if you can afford it, you won't look back.

I have combination machine and its perfect for the space I have (35sqm).

How big is your workshop? What sort of woodworking do you do?

For me and the work I do (I hate moving stuff around) I would say:

Small Workshop (<40sqm)= Full Combination Machine
Medium Workstop (40-50sqm) = Table Saw and combination Jointer/Thicknesser
Large Workshop (50sqm+) = Seperate Machines.

You might be able to get away with less space depending on the other equipment you have in there so take this with a grain of salt... everyones different

I had separate machinery for a while and then upgraded to the combination C3 31, for me having machines setup ready to go all the time wasnt an issue. mine was floor space and noise. i have found that to get rough lumber dressed all around on the hammer is such a quick process and accurate i have just got a rhythm down pat that i know exactly where to rotate the machine or lift the jointer tables and manoeuvre the DC piping i do with my eyes closed.

Now that i have claimed back all that workspace i can keep it tidy and have enough room for a bench and other things. My model has the helical head silent power for the jointer thicknesser so i can thickness/joint wood at 11pm at night if need be without any complaints from neighbours (im in a brick garage though)

If a c3 31 is within your reach then i would recommend it to anyone that will listen as the canberra woodworking guys i know have heard haha

surely there are things that are bad about it, i do agree with Poppa regarding the rip fence on the table saw but i can work around it i dont find it to actually be a problem. mine is on wheels and now that it has moved house with me twice im glad to say its in its final resting place. ITs accuracy, smooth fininshes from the helical head and over all its versatility is exactly what i needed.

My old Dewalt thciknesser used to make my ears bleed in comparison so i am more than happy with my combo machine. its a shame your in Vic, if your ever Canberra way come say gday and check out the machine.

If you want any more details/ photos etc just let me know.

Cheers,
Nathan

Originally Posted by joez

I have combination machine and its perfect for the space I have (35sqm).

How big is your workshop? What sort of woodworking do you do?

For me and the work I do (I hate moving stuff around) I would say:

Small Workshop (<40sqm)= Full Combination Machine
Medium Workstop (40-50sqm) = Table Saw and combination Jointer/Thicknesser
Large Workshop (50sqm+) = Separate Machines.

You might be able to get away with less space depending on the other equipment you have in there so take this with a grain of salt... everyone's different

The overall size of the shop is approx 25 sqm and the area within that space that I do most of my machining is approx 10sqm. So you can appreciate that I have to move one machine well away from the machine I'm operating in order to have clear access around the machine in operation and when that's finished I have to move everything out of the way to allow me to work at the bench. Not the idea setup. Hence, the thought that a combo would be a better use of space and easier to move one machine instead of 2 when I need bench/assembly space. At present I need to be organised in the prep process to avoid the frustration of moving multiple machines around the shop.

I make small furniture pieces, although I have made a large kitchen table and in the process of making a couple of 2m high bookcases.

Originally Posted by Rob from Kew

The overall size of the shop is approx 25 sqm and the area within that space that I do most of my machining is approx 10sqm. So you can appreciate that I have to move one machine well away from the machine I'm operating in order to have clear access around the machine in operation and when that's finished I have to move everything out of the way to allow me to work at the bench. Not the idea setup. Hence, the thought that a combo would be a better use of space and easier to move one machine instead of 2 when I need bench/assembly space. At present I need to be organised in the prep process to avoid the frustration of moving multiple machines around the shop.

I make small furniture pieces, although I have made a large kitchen table and in the process of making a couple of 2m high bookcases.

With 25sqm I would suggest a full combo, I have a minimax smart 300 with a 2.5m slider in 35m shop and it works well.

I am based in Preston, your welcome to come check it out just shoot me a PM.

joez

Are you looking at getting new or 2nd hand? Do you have an idea of price for both machines? And functionality you want/require?

With that space I'd be going full combo. I've got a c3-31 comfort in 36sqm and it's perfect. I've never really felt that I would be better off with separate machines in that space. I've got the rolling carriage on mine and if I'm processing long stuff I just roll it back towards the door so my indeed is from outside the shop and there's more room for out feed. The good thing about a full combo like this is when you roll it back both your table saw and your thicknesser all come together.

You need to be a bit better planned using a full combo otherwise you wind up changing things over a lot but having a decent plan before I start has been very beneficial for my workflow.

Nathan's Hammer is awesome.

He's convinced me to get a c3-31 at least. I don't want the full combo as I be replacing the TS with a SawStop once I win the lotto.

Dalejw is right, but in a little shop, organisation and economy of movement/moves is very important anyway! (I've only 25sqm)

I'd very strongly advised to watch all the YouTube videos.

Thanks for all the advice. It seems that a combo works effectively and offers the best use of to space. The Hammer C331 seems popular. Does anyone have a comment on the Minimax Genius? There is now a 300mm planer/thicknesser version of the Genius.

Originally Posted by Rob from Kew

Thanks for all the advice. It seems that a combo works effectively and offers the best use of to space. The Hammer C331 seems popular. Does anyone have a comment on the Minimax Genius? There is now a 300mm planer/thicknesser version of the Genius.

There is nothing between the Genius and Hammer as far as quality goes and the MM price is usually a lot better. The only issue between their planer/jointers is Hammer have as an option a Byrd style segmented head (Silent Power) and the MM uses a standard Tersa head. Both have advantages so the choice is yours and it is a hard one, best of luck with it. Most here have only been exposed to the Hammer machines and very few of us have seen both but MM in this country are really only starting into the hobby market. I bought the Hammer but if they had a Byrd head it would have been the MM. I also have a Hammer Winner which was bought before I was aware of the MM machine for comparison. Both brands will give sterling service and apart from a few niggles on my slider which I fixed when Hammer did not have any experience with the problem both of mine are great machines, well the A3-31 will be when I finally get around to installing it somewhere in the future.

I also have a K3 but with the Comfort package Chris. What issues did you cone across with the slider and what then was the solution?
Cheers
Darren

I would suggest think about your future, what will you be doing in 12 months time? 24 months time? will you expand your business? if so, how will it impact on your machinery purchase now?

I faced similar dilema 18 months ago, I went to the machinery place to check out how difficult/time consuming it is to do the conversion.

At that time I was not busy and only making $10k a year from the sales, the combi costed $15k (Robland NX410 PRO, 410mm wide planer with Tersa knife, 2.6m slider), and it was gonna be the biggest investment ever, I thought.

this year, I've made about $50k doing part time only (i still have a day time job ) and my shop has grown so much it now has the following machinery.

SCM 1100mm twin belt sander (2m x 1.5m)
Chicago 7.5kw silent piston compressor (1.5m x 1m)
Cecaco Dryer with filters
Omga Dual mitre saw AL129 (4.5m x 1m)
SCM S400P band saw (0.6 x 0.6)
Masterwood Swing chisel mortiser OMB1V (2m x 1m)
Holytek 4kw baghouse extractor with proper ducting. (2.4m x 1.2m )
Danfoss VSD rated 38amp
Carbatec filter, the big one
Festool DF700, CT36, palm sander
Frontline clamps x 4, Lamello corner Clamps x 2 , Bessey clamps x 20.

The compressor, dryer, the band saw, the mortiser and the ductings are bought new. if I went separate machines I wont be able to fit them all in.

some photos attached.

IMG_3952.JPGIMG_3953.jpgIMG_4391.JPG



you need to look at how you work around you woodwork, what you make and how you make it will play a vital part in the decision apart from space, if you always changing the setup of your machines then probably go separate machines. I make production runs of minor tweaking to suit my client.

I still have the combi, I can not live without it, I dont think I ever had the thought of "should have bought the separate machines"

but thats me.

Originally Posted by jenno

I also have a K3 but with the Comfort package Chris. What issues did you cone across with the slider and what then was the solution?
Cheers
Darren

The problems surrounded the new style of fine adjustment on the rip fence that can be had as an accessory. Hammer were very good about it, extremely so I might say but the design is not a mechanical masterpiece and it prevented the fence sliding freely. We pulled it apart and machined some new stuff and now it works well. Mine was the first into the country, how subsequent ones have worked I have no idea but at least they now have a fix that works. With the Wixey digital fence readout I fitted it is a pleasure to use, so accurate and no tapping or bumping the fence to set it, just wind the knob.