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  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    Albury, NSW
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    10

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack620 View Post
    I suspect the 30mm arbor blades you are seeing are more expensive because they are simply better quality blades.
    I think you are right. I wasn't really comparing apples to apples. Dado sets for example, the ones I have seen at Timbecon were the same blade diameter, but different brands. It probably wasn't fair to compare them quality wise, but the cheaper set is $200 less (and only available with 5/8" bore). Hence my thinking was, "Do I get a saw with a 5/8" arbor to save $200 on a blade set?", but I guess the price difference could be due to 'quality'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Just George View Post
    There has been some good advice, shaft size is not important, safety could be, the SawStop brand is awesome, a little more expensive, though injuries suck to recover from.

    Blade type is something to think about, use the right blade for the right job.

    You have not mentioned any machines from Carbatec, check them out, they have some new options coming...
    I agree, Sawstop looks/sounds awesome, but nearly TWICE my budget. The Harvey that I'm leaning towards is around $2200, while the cheapest cabinet style Sawstop looks to be around $4400. I know that will seem irrelevant if I loose a finger, but I'd have to save for another year to get the funds (and be using my rickety Triton for longer than I want).

    Carbatec's current range (online anyways, never been in the store) is Sawstop, and a few of their own rebadged units, none of which take a dado set. I'd love to get their basic 10" cabinet saw, as the $1375 price tag is much more wife-friendly, but I figured as this was a purchase I was probably only going to get away with once (unless the lotto numbers come up), I'd stretch to a unit with a dado compatible arbor, left hand-tilt and the option to maybe fit a router table to one side.

    Quote Originally Posted by aldav View Post
    If you're going to buy a Dado set (8"?) you already have a flat top grind blade. How deep are you likely to need to make closed slot cuts? If you want something FTG that can cut deeper than an 8" blade many (most?) of the better ripping blades are FTG anyway.
    I had thought that a blade from a dado set might suffice, but I could find a clear profile for these blades on a lot of sets. I have looked closer in to the CMT Precision Dado Set, and it does appear tto alternate a FTG and a bevel tooth, and is 1/8" kerf. This would probably do me for the limited use I was looking at (I do rebates and half laps with the Triton, but the glue surfaces are as rough as buggery, look messy from the sides unless I cut high and chisel down.) I could of course use the router table, but had a project in mind that would look nice with mitred-spline joint, and was after something much thinner than the router. The triangle bottom a standard ATB blade makes (or the rounded TCG) was just not quite pretty enough.

    I will hit up Henry Bros Saws - Bandsaw blades & circular saw blades for an idea of price on a full FTG blade, but I'm guessing the blade from the CMT set will be more than sufficient for my needs.

    I'm still thinking about getting the Harvey HW110LGE-30, more power seems handy, and I will just deal with the whole 5/8"/30mm thing if/when it comes up. The Laguna certainly has the best video production, but not that impressed with the aluminum fence rails, and the more powerful F3 is more expensive than the Harvey.

    Thanks for all the advice so far guys, good to find someone who 'understands'. My wife's eyes just glaze over when I start talking about any of this :P

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  3. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hamilton, Vic
    Posts
    14

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    I'm still thinking about getting the Harvey HW110LGE-30, more power seems handy, and I will just deal with the whole 5/8"/30mm thing if/when it comes up. The Laguna certainly has the best video production, but not that impressed with the aluminum fence rails, and the more powerful F3 is more expensive than the Harvey.

    Thanks for all the advice so far guys, good to find someone who 'understands'. My wife's eyes just glaze over when I start talking about any of this :P[/QUOTE]

    Hi Scott, I'm currently in the market for a saw and I'm looking at a Sherwood https://www.timbecon.com.au/sawing/t...id-cabinet-saw

    What did you end up buying and are you happy with it?

    Kind regards,

    David

  4. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Gidgegannup WA
    Posts
    14

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    Hi Dave, Scott, and others.

    I’m also interested in how you went as I’m in the same boat. Last Friday I checked out the Carbatec equivalent of that saw Carbatec 10" Cabinet Saw | Tablesaws - Carbatec . It looked pretty good, but I didn’t feel the urge to part with my money immediately (especially as I had gone there to look at a bandsaw).

    Today I went to Timbecon in Perth to have a look at the Sherwood model you mentioned https://www.timbecon.com.au/sawing/t...id-cabinet-saw with the intention of getting one on the back of the ute if it looked as good as it sounded. Here’s my very brief unskilled comparison of the two:


    • The prices are identical at $1599;
    • They both require a 15A circuit;
    • The Carbatec is rated 3HP, the Sherwood 2.5HP;
    • The Sherwood blade is 12”, the Carbatec 10”;
    • The build quality appears equal;
    • The Sherwood is dado capable, but not the Carbatec.


    So why did I come away empty-uted? The salesman kindly pointed out one of their best sellers, a 10” Contractors Saw for $1349: https://www.timbecon.com.au/sawing/t...ontractors-saw .
    This saw is 3HP, 15A, dado capable, and has an inbuilt set of wheels. There are some negatives: the outer tables are pressed metal instead of cast iron, and the overall build is much lighter than the previous two saws. The rail for the fence comes in two parts instead of one continuous length.

    I want a saw for hobby use only so the mobile contractor’s saw is looking good at a saving of $250, unless someone points out an issue I’ve overlooked. The heaviest use I’ll be putting the saw to is ripping 50mm hardwood, so I figure 3HP 10” should do that adequately. Or should I go for the 12" Sherwood Hybrid with the dado option and a little HP advantage over the Carbatec? The heavier build may have advantages I'm unaware of. Any advice or comments would be appreciated.

    Regards,
    Len

    Contractor saw.jpgSherwood Hybrid.jpgCarbatec Cabinet.jpg

  5. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Mt Crosby, Brisbane
    Posts
    2,548

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    Well as usual I have a different point of view. Take it for what it is...

    Second hand saws are a tiny fraction the price of new ones. I realise your in the country but is saving a grand worth a drive with a trailer ?

    3 phase stuff is almost give away, swap the motor or get a vfd. The rest of the machine is industrial quality and will outlast you.

    It's a saw. Not a jointer, sander or planer. If it doesn't have enough power take several light cuts as you would with a router. If the blade leaves a rough surface so what ? Dress it.

    I put an incra on mine. I leveraged this investment with a router wing. My hybrid 12" and RW is now by FAR the most used tool for wood that I own. As the americans would say it' my "go to" machine. I can cut to a thou and get flatness to a thou or better. The saw was 15 amp single phase. I use it on a 10 amp circuit because I'm naughty. I've also never made a cut with the splitter or blade guard fitted. I am not suggesting you follow my example.

    You can fit a 10" blade to a 12" saw, you can't fit a 12" blade to a 10" saw.

    I had a triton before my table saw. I am amazed anyone gets any sort of precision out of them. They are a carpenters tool not a cabinetmakers. It was also twice the volume of a proper TS. I no longer bother with ear protection.....what ?

    Here is the thread from when I bought mine:

    Qld Trade tools table saw

    And remarkably here is the page where I posted photos even though I've not been with exetel for over 10 years

    Damian Carvolth's Webpages

    If I had my time again I'd spring for the cabinet saw only due to better dust extraction. A good second hand cabinet saw is hard to beat. I would not buy a contractors saw because the price difference second hand isn't large enough. A hybrid saw is ok, I won't be upgrading mine probably ever. If you have the space get a second hand panel saw and find a way to power it.

    You need:

    A solid flat top, ideally cast iron but they do rust.

    Good blade mounting hardware. Solid, stiff, smooth in operation and no movement once adjusted.

    As much power as you can manage.

    You should be able to tick those boxes cheaply, then take your leftover and buy either an incra or some other excellent fence system. IMO add a router wing, or two. You will be amazed at what you can do with that machine once set up.

    Or go the complete opposite way and get a torque workcenter/ routermaster

    Selective Engineering Pty Ltd - Woodwork Machines
    I'm just a startled bunny in the headlights of life. L.J. Young.
    We live in a free country. We have freedom of choice. You can choose to agree with me, or you can choose to be wrong.
    Wait! No one told you your government was a sitcom?

  6. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Gidgegannup WA
    Posts
    14

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    I couldn’t wait any longer so I went back to both shops today, Carbatec first because I didn’t look very closely at their model last week. On second examination the Carbatec 10" Cabinet Saw looked a little less robust than I recalled, so on I went to Timbecon. Their Contractors Saw is very utilitarian – lots of nuts and bolts up and down the seams to afford some strength. I think the reason it has inbuilt castors is so you can wheel it along to clean up the sawdust pile that forms underneath it in the absence of a shroud, or tray, or extraction nozzle for that matter. Still, it’s priced accordingly and will suit a lot of buyers.

    So by a process of elimination I was left with the Sherwood 12” Hybrid Cabinet Saw, 2.5HP, all cast iron table. It seems to be sturdily built, looks smart, and is the same price as the Carbatec. The standard fence is heavy and solid. I handed over the plastic money for the saw and two blades and tied it on the back of the ute. Happy day.

    I unpacked and checked everything when I got home late this afternoon, but it remains uncleaned and unassembled until I get some assistance over the weekend, or until my tractor is repaired on Monday.

    (On a side note, the Sherwood Hybrid advertised in the Timbecon 2017/18 catalogue had the trunnion bolted to the cabinet, much like the more expensive Cabinet Saws. The current Sherwood Hybrid has the trunnion suspended from the centre table panel. This isn’t an issue for me, but I think it may account for the price drop this year. Maybe that’s not the reason, just a guess.)

    If anyone’s interested I can give an update on performance in a week or so.

    Regards,
    Len

  7. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hamilton, Vic
    Posts
    14

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    Hi Len,

    I hadn't considered the Timbecon contractors saw. It might be a bit light but still worthy of inspection perhaps. I think the heavier the saw the better for stability and accuracy which is another reason to look at the hybrid which is a $1000.00 cheaper that the full on Sherwood cabinet saw. I need to visit Melb and tour the showrooms for a play with some of these machines I think. What were your thoughts about the Sherwood Hybrid after seeing it, Len? Does it look the goods?

    I thought about the Carbatec machine too but no dado capability and only 1 year warranty kill that for me. I would prefer that the Sherwood Hybrid was 3 h/p but 2.5 is probably enough. Having a 5 year warranty is a plus too I think. I like the look of the Sherwood 10" standard (https://www.timbecon.com.au/sawing/1...rd-cabinet-saw) too but thats in a higher price range and brings into consideration other brands as well. I like the look of the Harvey HW110LGE-30 which is on sale at the moment (Harvey HW110LGE-30 Table Saw - Bigger Boyz Toyz). But again only 1 year warranty and I'm not sure how good they are.

    Anyway, still scratching my head here...need to take a drive I think )

    Thanks for replying to my query.

    Cheers,

    Dave

  8. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Gidgegannup WA
    Posts
    14

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    Hi Dave,

    Sadly, my progress has been delayed by all those non-shed distractions that occur when life intrudes on fun things. I did manage to get the saw off the ute (see pic) when my helper was unable to assist, and the process of cleaning and assembly is almost finished.

    Like most things these days the assembly instructions were not enclosed in the carton but a call to the shop had a copy emailed to me straight away. Attaching and aligning the cast iron wings required some shims which weren’t mentioned in the instructions of course, or included, but an obsolete feeler gauge came to the rescue. The centre table isn’t dead flat – maybe because the motor assembly is attached underneath – but I don’t think it’s out enough to cause problems in anything I may do. When I get another opportunity I’ll measure the concave deflection and call the shop if it’s out by much.

    I found the fence rather finicky to adjust and although it will probably work out in the end I'm a little disappointed with the engineering of it. At this price point you can’t expect too much, I guess. Now the bad news is that I forgot to pick up a bush to adapt the blade to the arbor so I can’t try it out. What a pain, and I have a lot of other stuff happening this week too. I tried a few local hardware/tool stores today and bought the ‘best’ bush set on offer but they were a bit dodgy so I won’t use them. Despite the photo below I do value my life.

    At this incomplete stage I can say that overall the Hybrid looks the part and I’m pleased I bought it rather than the Contractor saw. At 150+ kg it feels and looks like a table saw. As you rightly say the dado capability and 5yr warranty gave it an advantage over the Carbatec competitor. A real Cabinet Saw would be better still, but the price difference is much too great for me to justify. As for the Harvey or Laguna – by the time you add freight to Perth they’re confined to the dream realm.

    I hope this helps. When I actually get to use the saw I’ll post a few more comments. Happy hunting!

    Regards,
    Len

    20190914_125932.jpg

  9. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hamilton, Vic
    Posts
    14

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    Hi Len,

    Thanks for your update. I hope you enjoy your new saw. Interesting to hear about the flatness of the top and the need for shims on the table extensions. If I buy this saw I'll be sure to check those things in the shop before I take delivery.

    I had a little chuckle when I saw your photo. I unloaded my combo planer/thicknesser like that, except mine ended up on its side. No harm done thankfully and I got my neighbour to come with his tractor to help pick it up. I know, I should have called him first! LOL My next purchase will be a Walkie Stacker!

    I'll be interested to hear how the saw goes once you have it set up.

    Happy sawing,

    Dave

  10. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Albury
    Posts
    3,019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave C View Post
    Thanks for your update. I hope you enjoy your new saw. Interesting to hear about the flatness of the top and the need for shims on the table extensions. If I buy this saw I'll be sure to check those things in the shop before I take delivery.Dave
    You are very unlikely to get the opportunity to check anything before you take delivery of a saw, it will be packaged in a warehouse. It's very rare to not have to shim table extensions so the chances of getting one where that is not necessary is Buckleys. It's not a big deal though.

  11. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Gidgegannup WA
    Posts
    14

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    Some positive news to report.

    When I first assembled the table I was a bit dismayed to see the amount of light leaking under a straightedge placed across the centre cast iron section. When I returned to the saw yesterday I measured a ‘sag’ of 0.3mm (about 12 thou) – not enough for me to worry about, so that was a relief. When checking this I also discovered the red table insert (around the blade) was slightly convex longitudinally, so that when the corners were adjusted flush with the cast iron the centre of the insert sat proud by maybe 0.5mm or more. Some careful flexing corrected this.

    I then tackled the fence adjustment which had given me cause for concern on day one. The assembly manual wasn’t very helpful but careful study of the mechanism and a bit of tinkering got it all working to my satisfaction. The blade alignment was close enough for me to try some cutting without having to adjust it first.

    My prime justification for purchasing this saw was to help refashion a heap of well-seasoned 200x50 Kapur into …. something. Ripping is the major challenge. I jointed a metre length and cut off a couple of thin strips then cut the remainder in half. One of these I put through again to produce a piece of 60x20 (I’ll be needing a few of these in my first project, so this was a trial run).

    The saw performed flawlessly. No struggling, jamming, or burning, and the sawn finish is excellent. Another skim through the jointer, or a machine sanding, will leave it perfect. I retired indoors to work out my cutting list before going any further. Happy boy.

    I hope you find this useful Dave.
    Regards,
    Len

  12. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Hamilton, Vic
    Posts
    14

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    Hi Len,

    Thanks for the update. It sounds like it was a worthwhile purchase. I think a trip to Melbourne is on the cards for me pretty soon. )

    Cheers,

    Dave

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