Cabinet vs Hybrid, Arbor size, and a plea for help

**Scott Duyster** · 27th May 2018, 01:35 AM

Hello all, long time listener (reader), first time caller (poster), and I have a 'dilemma' that I hope random anonymous people on a forum can help me with, or at least, provide me with some fantastic advice and wisdom

First, my history: Many moons ago, a much younger and poorer me, who had always loved woodworking, decided to purchase a table saw, which would solve all his problems and allow him to make masterful furniture and workshop fittings. At the time, full table saws appeared to be way out of reach (budget-wise). Upon discovering wonderful videos featuring a certain pony-tailed legend, an exciting Ebay auction marathon occurred, and soon the delivery of a full set of Triton saw, routers, workcentre and tables arrived at his house. A golden age of construction and 'cabinetry' ensued, and the itch was scratched, the wife was pleased. But this did not last forever. Limitations of folded metal were found, and a desire for flat cast iron and machined mitre-slots arose....

So here I am today, with a 'larger' budget, cruising the Internet, hunting for the 'ultimate' bang-for-the-buck table saw that a weekend-woodworker could find 'adequate', in his hunt for accuracy and ability to cut things better than a Triton Workcentre. My first problem, I live in rural Australia (well, Albury NSW), and tools stores are limited to Bunnings and a few smaller chains that think portable contractor saws are 'good enough' for the average hobbyist. A few Google searches later, I have found that there are a few stores (though many miles away) that do indeed carry the cast-iron beasts that he has seen many a Youtube 'celebrity' make wonderful wooden creations with.

My dilemma is this, fellow forum dwellers, what do I buy? I have narrowed my quest to a few select potentials, but as I am a relative newcomer to the world of affordable 'quality' table saws, I seek knowledge and wisdom from the enlightened few who have purchased and researched such things before me.

I 'think' I would like a 10" cabinet saw, cast-iron top, dado-capable, left-hand tilt (I am told that's 'better'), at a decent quality with a price that doesn't make the wife too upset. My workshop (ie. small single car garage, around 5m x 8m) is slowly being fit out with shelving and workbenches around the periphery, and has a nice table saw sized hole in the centre. It currently gets power from an extension lead, but that would be replaced with a proper sub-board and cabling if the need arose (ie. I buy a table saw), so 10A or 15A is not a problem (though I probably couldn't justify a full 3- phase installation for my hobby).

My extensive Internet research has lead me so far to a few alternatives and suppliers. Firstly, yes, I have searched these forums, and read all the relevant posts, and yes, I understand how awesome Sawstop is, and how much my fingers are worth, but my budget does not stretch that far. At $2k more than what I'm looking at, that's an awful lot of wife approval-points I would have to try and get under the radar. I have also seen less expensive cabinet saws (ie. 10" Carbatec), but they cannot utilise dado-stacks, and seem 'cheap' in a few areas (fence, rails, motor etc.).

So my short-list as it stands at the moment is thus:
Harvey HW110LGE-30 (https://www.bbta.com.au/harvey-hw110lge-30-table-saw/) $2199 (at time of posting). Not a lot on the web about this saw, until I found that it is rebadged and sold under 6-7 other brands around the world (eg. Grizzly G0690), and then I found many glowing reviews and testimonials. Price is more than acceptable, from what I have researched, for a decent quality saw with decent power and construction. 3HP motor, heavier unit, and it's fence looks to be single sided with an extruded aluminum face (if the photos can be believed). My only concern: 30mm arbor (more on this later).

Harvey HW110LC-30 (https://www.majorwoodworking.com.au/...-tablesaw-586/) $1975 (at time of posting). As above, not a lot on the web about this saw, until I found that Grizzly appears to have it branded as the 'G0833P'. It is described as a 'Hybrid' table saw, not sure what the difference is. 2HP motor, and fence seems to be dual sided, with plastic fence faces (this seems better to me, as a lot of 'jigs' I see being made mount over the fence, and they would fit easier on this saw). 5/8" arbor.

Laguna Fusion F2 (https://www.gregmach.com/product/lag...n-f2-tablesaw/) $2165 (but been 'Coming Soon' for quite some time). Seems to have a wider rip capacity than the Harvey's (not sure if that's something I 'need'), built in castors (saves a few dollars, I do need mobility), but is 'only' 1.75 HP, and looks to have aluminium fence rails . I do like the look of the dual-sided aluminium faced fence, and squared-off throat plate (I would be able to make my own zero-clearance plates easier?), but it's "Coming Soon" and I can't find a lot about the current model (some reviews about poor dust collection, not having a cabinet bottom, and the fence being 'passable'). The older 'Laguna Fusion Platinum' it apparently a rebadged Harvey HW110LGE-30, but this new F2 model is a different beast entirely. 5/8" arbor.

Sherwood 10" Hybrid Cabinet Saw ($1899)/ Sherwood 10" Standard Cabinet Saw ($2499) (Timbecon). Both of these appear to tick all my boxes, the standard has a larger motor and a 'better' fence (steel vs aluminium), but I can't really find ANY reviews or anecdotes about these saws online, so both are a relative unknown quality to me. 5/8" arbor.

I'm sure any of these saws would be light-years ahead of my Triton, and that I would be 'happy' with any of them, but I have a few nagging questions, that being the pedantic-type that I am, I need to research to death before I make a purchase. This is where I hope you, the members of www.woodworkforums.com can help me (since I can't easily pester a salesman in a showroom, and my email queries haven't had that 'light-bulb' revelation moment answered yet).

Question 1: What would I notice (keeping in mind I'm a hobbyist, not a professional) the difference is between a Hybrid (seem cheaper, lighter, and less HP) and a full Cabinet (heavier, pricier, more HP)? I understand that both the Harvey and Sherwood 'Hybrids' have Cabinet mounted trunnions (and I'm lead to believe that this is a 'good thing'), and have smaller 2HP motors (and only need 10A sockets), but is this something I would regret later on? I currently do projects in pine, plywood and mdf, but this may change later on (as I can see a higher quality result from a good saw encouraging me to use a 'better' quality of timber). Is bigger better?

Question 2: Arbor size and blade choice. This is the one that is doing my head in. I was originally really keen on the HW110LGE-30, but upon researching what is available in blades around the world, and what I 'need', it got much fuzzier. According to the 'Internet', I need 3 blades. A good crosscut blade, a rip blade, and ideally, a blade with a flat-tooth grind for quick slots/dado/rebates. It's the FTG blade that seems the hardest to find (at least in Australia), and the options from USA look good, except for one thing. USA favors the 5/8" arbor size, not 30mm. There are some manufacturers than can supply their blades with 30mm, but they charge $20-30 more to rebore the blades, and they are already quite expensive to begin with (then again, maybe $200 for a blade is reasonable, I can only compare to my little Triton, but I have found $40-50 blades that seem to be quite decent, but only in 5/8"). Dado blades also seem to be very expensive if they are available in 30mm, around $100-200 more than 5/8" alternatives. My questions is this: Am I worrying about nothing? Do I get the HW110LGE-30 and just deal with the fact that blades are more expensive (and in some cases, never going to be available in 30mm ie. http://www.rockler.com/rockler-miter-fold-dado-set Or do I get a 'cheaper' saw like the HW110LC-30 just to give myself the largest choice of blades in the future, but possibly sacrifice build quality and power? I have yet to look in to how hard it would be to have a 5/8" rebored to 30mm by a local engineering firm, but I do know it's not something I could do myself with and kind of accuracy. Do I even need a FTG blade? Is saving a $100-200 dollars on a dado set going to be an issue in the long run (ie. the cheaper blades are trash)?

Anyways, I think I have rambled on enough. I can only hope that someone understands my dilemma and concerns, and can point me in the right direction. Feel free to ask more questions of me, if I haven't been clear on anything, and certainly, if I have missed something really obvious, point it out, I am still only learning about table saws and what I might need/want with one.

Thanks
Scott

**BobL** · 27th May 2018, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Scott Duyster

Question 1: What would I notice (keeping in mind I'm a hobbyist, not a professional) the difference is between a Hybrid (seem cheaper, lighter, and less HP) and a full Cabinet (heavier, pricier, more HP)? I understand that both the Harvey and Sherwood 'Hybrids' have Cabinet mounted trunnions (and I'm lead to believe that this is a 'good thing'), and have smaller 2HP motors (and only need 10A sockets), but is this something I would regret later on? I currently do projects in pine, plywood and mdf, but this may change later on (as I can see a higher quality result from a good saw encouraging me to use a 'better' quality of timber). Is bigger better?

It depends how exploratory you are. Some blokes get away with 2HP no worries as they work with soft woods and smaller timber sizes but as soon as you step outside this zone a 3HP (or more) becomes might handy.

Question 2: Arbor size and blade choice. There are some manufacturers than can supply their blades with 30mm, but they charge $20-30 more to rebore the blades,

Why anyone would bore out a 30 mm is beyond me. There are plenty of bushing kits around that can adapt 30 mm downwards to what ever size arbor you need. If you cannot find a bush then a friendly metal worker can usually turn one up for you.

Do I even need a FTG blade? Is saving a $100-200 dollars on a dado set going to be an issue in the long run (ie. the cheaper blades are trash)?

Perhaps more useful than a straight FTG is a triple chip blade as this produces a flat bottom cut and is useful for clean MFD and melamine cuts.
You don't need one to get going but they can also act as a super clean (albeit slow) cross cutting blade.

My choices of blades would be a ripping blade, a combination blade and a triple chip blade.
A combination blade that rips and cross cuts reduces the amount of blade swapping which after a while becomes a PITA.

Because I mainly my TS for ito cut Al, the blade that I leave on my saw is a 96 tooth negative raked toothed blade. It's achinese Bosch blade that cost $69 many moons ago and it is still working well. It cross cuts almost as well as the triple chip blade but is hopeless at ripping - don't even bother with that.

**aldav** · 27th May 2018, 10:05 AM

Like BobL I have a contractor saw (motor hanging out the back, mine is 2hp, 5/8" arbor) so I can't really advise concerning your choice of a cabinet saw. My saw will take a 12" blade, but I rarely use them, and generally speaking I find that it has enough power to do the jobs that I want. Have you visited the Woodcrafters Club and the local men's sheds in Lavington, Thurgoona and Wodonga? You will be able to see a selection of saws in these places that might make you more comfortable about making a decision.

If you're going to buy a Dado set (8"?) you already have a flat top grind blade. How deep are you likely to need to make closed slot cuts? If you want something FTG that can cut deeper than an 8" blade many (most?) of the better ripping blades are FTG anyway. If you're planning to cut across the grain with a FTG blade and expecting to get a decent result forget it. With the grain you'll get a very acceptable result. The two triple chip blades that I have don't cut a flat bottom, not much point to a TC blade that does, so don't go thinking that they are going to do anything other than what they are designed to do.

**BobL** · 27th May 2018, 10:29 AM

For clarification my contractor saw is a 3HP and while the thread on the arbor is 5/8, the blade bore is 1" and the arbor has a 1" collar that the saw sits over. I've found that this struggles ripping 65mm deep cut in aussie hardwoods. At first I thought it was my blade but I borrowed a brand new expensive blade from a mate to try out from a mate and that was not significantly different.

**Scott Duyster** · 27th May 2018, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by BobL

Why anyone would bore out a 30 mm is beyond me. There are plenty of bushing kits around that can adapt 30 mm downwards to what ever size arbor you need. If you cannot find a bush then a friendly metal worker can usually turn one up for you.

Sorry, I must not have been very clear on this point (hey, it was very late and bourbon was involved). I understand that you can get bushing kits, but they only help to put a larger hole on a smaller arbor (you can't put a 5/8" blade on a 30mm arbor). The blades I refer to come from USA with 5/8" as the 'default' configuration, but they can cut them to 30mm for a fee (something I can't easily do myself).

I'm just concerned that if I get a saw with a 30mm arbor, I might be limiting my blade choice (since most USA based blades only come in 5/8"). But to get a saw with 5/8" I have to either get a 'cheaper' model (like the Harvey HW110LC-30) or a saw I can't find much info on like the Laguna or Sherwood models I listed.

Perhaps more useful than a straight FTG is a triple chip blade as this produces a flat bottom cut and is useful for clean MFD and melamine cuts.

Hmm, from what I have read, I thought that TCG left a rounded cut in the cut, as the flat tooth was lower in profile than the beveled ones. I found a nice 'guide' at https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/...sing-saw-blade which show the profiles. I mainly wanted a 'flat' as I know the cut from my Triton is very uneven when doing something like a rebate or groove/dado.

My choices of blades would be a ripping blade, a combination blade and a triple chip blade.

I hadn't listed a combination blade because I had 'heard' that it wasn't a 'good' as a dedicated blade for either cut type. I could see it being good enough for a general duties blade though (and pretty sure a combo comes on the saws I'm looking at). A TCG sounds like it might be good if I get in to melamine (this wife does want a new laundry cupboard setup), might have to add it to my short-list, thanks.

Thanks for the reply though, I welcome any advice at this stage, as it's easier to change my mind BEFORE the money exchanges hands

**aldav** · 27th May 2018, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by BobL

I've found that this struggles ripping 65mm deep cut in aussie hardwoods.

Using a dedicated ripping blade or a combination blade?

**BobL** · 27th May 2018, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by aldav

Using a dedicated ripping blade or a combination blade?

Ripping blade. Maybe I'm just expecting too much from it.

**elanjacobs** · 27th May 2018, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Scott Duyster

Hmm, from what I have read, I thought that TCG left a rounded cut in the cut, as the flat tooth was lower in profile than the beveled ones.

That is correct. It's also my experience that a sharp ATB (alternate top bevel, ie the standard grind) set about 10-15mm higher than the material thickness performs just as well as, if not better than, triple chip in melamine without a scoring blade

Originally Posted by BobL

Ripping blade. Maybe I'm just expecting too much from it.

65mm in local hardwoods is a big ask; our 10hp rip saw gets by ok, but the 7.5hp panel saw doesn't like to go too fast

**Sawdust Maker** · 27th May 2018, 08:16 PM

If you need a flat top blade, Henry Bros will set one up for you

Henry Bros Saws - Bandsaw blades & circular saw blades

and when I was looking to upgrade from the Triton to a 'proper' tablesaw I ended up with a contractors saw, either from Hare & Forbes or Carbatec.
When I upgraded from that I narrowed my choice down to the Jet Pro Shop - I went out to Major Woodworking at Padstow only to find that they'd just abandoned the Jet Brand. I ended up buying their clone and am happy with it. It's a cross between a cabinet saw and a contractors saw - ie the motor doesn't hang out the back but it has legs

**robbygard** · 27th May 2018, 08:34 PM

i just bought a laguna fusion f2 from mmvic in melbourne, one of the old models (a replacement for an old tablesaw) ... trend timbers also sell the brand and may also have one of the old ones and cartage to albury should bne less from there than from gregmach ... it is 2hp ... i believe the new ones are going to only be 1.75hp or 3hp for the next level up (which is more $ of course)

as for blades ... i will get them from henry bros in sydney ...

i checked them out at the melbourne show last year and went for the laguna over other options because the build quality significantly up on the cheaper ones and it is easier to move about than the harvey ... that was important to me as the only m,achine that has a permanent location in my shed is the planer thicknesser ... everything else gets moved up front to be used ... the harvey has an optional mobile base but the laguna can be moved easily as it comes and has a sligthly smaller ... i made a small adjustment to it to make its footprint even smaller as i don't intend to use it for sheet material ... i would use the tracksaw for that

regards david

**jack620** · 27th May 2018, 09:16 PM

I wouldn’t let arbor size influence your decision at all. I have an old Luna table saw with a 30mm arbor. I bought it used 20 years ago and I still use the original Luna ripping blade that it came with. Since then I have bought a Freud blade and a CMT crosscut blade from Carbatec. Those three blades have done a lot of cutting in 20 years.

Quality blades will last many sharpenings. I suspect the 30mm arbor blades you are seeing are more expensive because they are simply better quality blades. Machines with 30mm arbors tend to be in the higher price range and I suspect the blades are manufactured to a higher standard too. Just my theory with no evidence to support it!

**Just George** · 27th May 2018, 09:44 PM

There has been some good advice, shaft size is not important, safety could be, the SawStop brand is awesome, a little more expensive, though injuries suck to recover from.

Blade type is something to think about, use the right blade for the right job.

You have not mentioned any machines from Carbatec, check them out, they have some new options coming...

**aldav** · 27th May 2018, 09:59 PM

The Woodcrafters club in Wodonga has a Sawstop. They're generally pretty welcoming.

**elanjacobs** · 27th May 2018, 10:06 PM

If you don't mind spending a couple of hundred dollars, I highly recommend Leuco blades

**Just George** · 27th May 2018, 10:08 PM

Tablesaws that are fitted with a blade usually have average quality blades, buy yourself a good combo blade at minimum. CMT blades are reasonably priced, and available from Carbatec.

Thread: Cabinet vs Hybrid, Arbor size, and a plea for help

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Cabinet vs Hybrid, Arbor size, and a plea for help

Cabinet vs Hybrid, Arbor size, and a plea for help

Similar Threads

Should I change arbor size from 30 to 25mm

Table saw blade arbor size

Changing arbor size

Triton arbor size

Arbor Size on TSC-10HB

Posting Permissions