Thread: Contractor saw or cabinet?

Originally Posted by Cure1973

. . . is there any real benefits to a cabinet saw ( aside from what ive read regarding dust extraction.

ALL cheaper DIY level saws have rubbish dust extraction so if you are serous about dust extraction serious mods will be needed;
- contractor saw - remove the blade shroud inside the cabinet, seal up the back of the cabinet and cut a port in the front/side of the cabinet. The add a hopper/collector in between the cabinet and the stand that uses at least 6" ducting
- cabinet saw - remove any blade shroud. Enlarge the 4" post to a 6" port. This may involve relocating the dust port. Blocking up any gaps in the cabinet where sawdust might escape and adding an air inlet into the cabinet opposite the new enlarged dust port.
On both saws the blade guards will need to be removed and replaced with guards that can accept a least a 4" duct - look in the dust forum for examples.
Anything less than the above will result in inadequate dust extraction.

that brings me to my next point the cheaper contractor saws allow me enough to buy a basic extraction system plus make the machine mobile.

What do you mean by basic?
Testing and experiments have shown that at least a 2HP DC that has been modified along the lines of that shown in the sticky in the dust forum, will be needed. Even then the DC must be located or at least enclosed in a dust proof enclosure inside a shed that is vented outside the shed. Leaving the DC inside the shed is asking for problems.

Back to the difference between the contractor and cabinet saws.
Mobility - machines on wheels that weigh twice as much as a cabinet can easily be moved around.
Because it has the motor inside the cabinet a cabinet saw is usually a bit more compact than the comparable contractor saw.
Accuracy depends as much on the fence and fence rails so a cabinet saw with a crummy fence may not cut as accurately as a contractor saw with a good fence.

FWIW I have a 3HP 12" contractor saw with an ordinary fence on it that I use mainly to cut Al and plastic. Apart from the crappy dust extraction which I fixed, I dislike the slotted cast iron wings where materials get stuck. I replaced one side with a cast iron router table wind which fixed the other side gives me the irrits. The fence is sloppier than I would like but it's not that different compared to what I have seen on cheap cabinet saws. The various bits of plastic (e.g. belt cover) have disintegrated over time and it vibrates a touch more than I would like but it still cuts OK. It's up for a replacement in the next few years and I will probably replace it with a more compact cabinet saw.

Machines 4 you generally have some good deals mate.

You'll find that, in general, the contractor saws will have a bit more flex to them and, having a pressed top (in general) won't be quite as amazingly flat.

That said, cast iron done poorly can be just as, if not more, frustrating to deal with as you realise that your hard earned has gone into something that still needs tweaking.

I went and got a second hand combo unit for a fraction of what it would cost me if I wanted to buy a similar thing new. It's lethal in terms of safety and the dust extraction is, well, let's say it involves magnets and foam tape. However, by making sure that you manage the environment around you and that you always take your time around it, it's perfectly acceptable for a starter machine. It also means I got a much better quality machine without paying the whole price tag. Machines4u was a good site to watch, eventually the thing you want will likely come up, although eBay, Gumtree and this site aren't all that bad to monitor either.

My only regret is getting a saw without a tilting arbor, which will be essential for your work.

Best of luck with your hunt!

Originally Posted by themage21

You'll find that, in general, the contractor saws will have a bit more flex to them and, having a pressed top (in general) won't be quite as amazingly flat.

No all have pressed metal tops. In fact many have as much CI in the top as the cheaper cabinet TS.

I went and got a second hand combo unit for a fraction of what it would cost me if I wanted to buy a similar thing new. It's lethal in terms of safety and the dust extraction is, well, let's say it involves magnets and foam tape. However, by making sure that you manage the environment around you and that you always take your time around it, it's perfectly acceptable for a starter machine.

There are of course older machines and boat anchors.
Our experience at the mens shed with more than half dozen older cabinet saws and combination machines that have been donated to us has not been good.
They all had major problems and, apart from one, have been disposed of.
The fences were awful and none had even a hint of dust extraction.
Many of the older machines have tables that are way too small and on several it was the table rather than the blade that was raised/lowered which was confusing and awkward when the least amount of blade was showing the table was too high for some of our shorter members. This simply cannot be fixed.
The most dangerous thing about some old combo machines is the common spindle for the saw and planer, which led to a member cutting themselves, only a nick but it could have been a lot worse.
I have an old 8" planer, 12" saw, Woodfast combo (in storage) that I was going to resurrect, but it also has most of these problems and I would much rather use my contractor saw.

The only combo machine we have left is a SIMCA combo, built like a brick outhouse, that we have stripped the table saw, spindle moulder and planer capability off, and we use it just as a thicknesser
For sawing we purchased new basic solid 12" cabinet saw.

My only regret is getting a saw without a tilting arbor, which will be essential for your work.

Yes, many with the rising table have this problem - I have it on my contractor saw but rarely use it.

Dan, I have had a Carbatec contractor saw (K12) for the past 20 years. It was not a cheap saw in its day, as it included a sliding table for crosscuts. Incidentally, I would see a way to crosscut as essential for which ever tablesaw you get, unless you also have a set up sliding drop saw.

Over the years I have modified the saw - adding a Biesemeyer type fence, a router table at one side (that extends the bed), and recently upgraded the motor from 2 hp to 3 hp. While my heart would love a new and more modern cabinet saw, my head says that this one does everything that a cabinet saw could do. The only downside to it is mediocre dust collection.

The heart of a tablesaw is the motor connected to a decent blade (the blade can often make up for the motor being slightly underpowered) and an accurate and solid (reliable) fence. The remainder is piffle. Finding a decent contractor saw and adding a decent fence (if needed) is likely to save a lot of money. I say this because your description (of drum parts) indicates that you are needing to rip short lengths only. A crosscut jig can be easily made for the tablesaw if you do not have a sliding table (which most do not have).

You are welcome to come over and see what I have, and try it out for yourself. I am in Rossmoyne.

Regards from Perth

Derek

No offence, but those 'contractor' table saws are cabinet saws with open bases! A real contractor saw is made by bosch or makita and can be lugged around in the back of the ute to job sites!

Peoro, ironically, the saws that are lugged to work sites are closer in design to a cabinet saw!

The major feature of a contractor saw is that the motor lies outboard, while with a cabinet saw, the motor is enclosed within the cabinet.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Cheers for the reply and knowledge! Sounds like most will have dust extraction issues - my meaning of basic I guess was an extraction system for a single machine and only what I have seen from carbatec.
i can also see how the slotted wings could be annoying I presume that is just to keep costs down. It may also be annoying for me if I go down that route!

The ones I am looking at as above have solid iron tops ( well mostly solid apart from contractor type ones)
i have been keeping an eye out for second hand machines but I will probably buy new to at least get the warranty with it. I plan on building my own router table and jigs for jointing etc not so much because I'm a tight ass (I am!) but space saving.
cheers!

Hi derek
thanks for the reply mate. Certainly a minefield out there for the new user! I havent looked too deeply into the saws i meantioned above but i think at least two were 3hp single phase.
i have read about arbor wobble with some contractor saws due to the belt(?) but overcome using a chain or some other methods.
initially i wont have a sliding crosscut table as the ones for these particular saws are around $900 i do have a makita sliding drop saw and other bits and bobs.
as to ripping short lengths im not so sure on that one. I was imagining bevelling long lengths of timber to the correct stave width and angle then chopping them roughly to finished size.
would love to come and have a look mate and see your set up!
cheers
dan

Could I ask people to be mindful of unnecessary quoting, please read this thread

Replying to posts, unnecessary quoting

It isn't necessary to quote yards of prose to post a reply, just as it takes 1 click to press Reply with Quote it also only takes 1 click to press Reply.
Quoting yards of prose makes scrolling through threads tedious and uses up data, especially for people that are on slow internet connections.

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Could I ask people to be mindful of unnecessary quoting, please read this thread

Replying to posts, unnecessary quoting

It isn't necessary to quote yards of prose to post a reply, just as it takes 1 click to press Reply with Quote it also only takes 1 click to press Reply.
Quoting yards of prose makes scrolling through threads tedious and uses up data, especially for people that are on slow internet connections.

Quoting gives context, I dont see any unnecessary quoting here, in fact I see quite the opposite.

Completely agree Pearo, I find quotes to be useful so long as people aren't nesting them multiple levels deep.

Originally Posted by Pearo

Quoting gives context, I dont see any unnecessary quoting here, in fact I see quite the opposite.

That is because quite a few long quotes have been removed