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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    9,302

    Default Eccentric hold down for K3 sliding table saw

    I have been looking for a hold down for the Hammer K3 slider for some time, to be used like this ...





    Something like this eccentric clamp by Felder ...





    The trouble is that they are very expensive, somewhere between $150 - $350 USD, and with the Aussie Dollar tanking, try doubling that!


    There is an "inexpensive" one available on AliExpress ($75 USD), but price is without shipping (and you still need to double the price for AUD) ...





    Then I came across this one, made by ToughCut, available at Total Tools ... in Perth! For $75 AUD. I jumped on it.





    When it arrived, I was impressed by the quality of the construction ...





    Of course, there was an issue - there was no way to fit this directly to the Hammer slider (it was designed for a ToughCut slider). And I wanted it behind the crosscut fence, where there was no space ...





    To give an idea of the size of this thing, the plate for the screw would not fit the track ...





    I measured the screw diameter at 21mm ...





    The knob at the top intrigued me. It did not appear to do anything. I assumed, from the photo, that it would turn to tighten the base screw, but it did not. It was simply fixed in place.


    The screw looked like an M8 thread, but that was difficult to determine in this form. Then it occurred to me that the side clamp had the same thread and knob ...





    Checking this, it was indeed an M8. Great, they opened the door!


    So, the plan was to up-end the shaft, using the M8 screw to connect it to the plate securing the crosscut fence ...





    Cut off the knob, trimmed the bolt, drilled and threaded the plate ...





    This was a good and solid fit ...





    Here is the finished product (what do I do with the thread at the top - cut it off or add something?) ...





    Note that the clamping knob on the side was relocated to the rear (to clear the blade guard) ...





    Turned sideways, out-of-the-way ...





    Regards from Perth


    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
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    Default

    Derek, do you leave it permanently installed?

  4. #3
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    Apr 2001
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    Perth
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    Default

    Chris, it is easy enough to unscrew, if so wanted.

    I thought that I would live with it on for a while, and determine where the shaft could be cut - it does not need to be the full length, and cutting (half?) would be a weight saving.

    It would not add much weight to the crosscut fence to lift on-and-off. What it adds should be balanced by adding a “handle” when doing so.

    Your thoughts, in case of missing something.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
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    Default

    It may not be any advantage in your case but most users would want to be able to position it on the table as needed, this would give added flexibility, screw it to the clamp or to the slot. Speaking for myself I have found very few situations where I needed any clamp but that does not mean a clamp is a bad idea as lots of people use them. If I were you I would consider making a foot to go into the slot on the table and position it in front of the fence as it would be very easy to remove at the other end, put a big nylon washer under it to avoid marking the table. I never know what to call each end as front or back leading or trailing etc.

    I would be interested to see how people use clamps and their thinking behind it, maybe a question for SMC as well. Air clamps look awesome but the price makes them beyond reach for most and they are more likely only a valid option for commercial users.

  6. #5
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    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Default

    Chris, I do not plan to move the hold down around. The aim was always to have something to clamp at the fence. Some pieces there may be held with a clamp against the crosscut fence. Trying this with low work pieces might lift them from the table. Hence the preferred hold down.

    At the other end of the sliding wagon, if I need a hold down, I just use an Incra. This was on the first version of the Reversed F&F (the Mk2 does not need a hold down as the non-slip on the face, together with the depth stop, prevents movement)



    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula
    Posts
    38

    Default

    Being able to keep hands clear when cutting is a major advantage of the slider for me. A clamp will no doubt help for more difficult cuts and smaller pieces.

    I had a look at the Total Tools website and no mention of this product, but I’ll have a look tomorrow at our local branch. Perhaps it can be ordered in.

    I’ve also been looking for something like this for a while so thanks for the ‘heads up’.

    Leigh


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Default

    that should have been Beyond Tools!

    Holding Down Clamp suit Diamond Series Panelsaws by Toughcut – Beyond Tools

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Townsville
    Age
    46
    Posts
    15

    Default

    Derek

    Could you do me a small favor and send me the dimensions of the locking plate. I think it might fit my old slider. If it does Beyond Tools will be getting an order.

    Thanks

    Jase

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Helensburgh
    Posts
    6,314

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasethebeginner View Post
    Derek

    Could you do me a small favor and send me the dimensions of the locking plate. I think it might fit my old slider. If it does Beyond Tools will be getting an order.

    Thanks

    Jase
    Jase, do you mean the semi circular plate the fence is fixed to? I have a spare one of those if you think it will work on your saw.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    22

    Default

    Pricing as of a couple of weeks ago.

    400-108 Eccentric clamp with clamping shaft $ 286.20 + GST

    410-190 Adapter Felder eccentric clamp $ 67.14 + GST

    The adapter is to allow it to fit to a K3 Sliding table.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Default

    So, about $400 for the Felder vs $75 for the ToughCut.

    Jase, I will get back to you later.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  13. #12
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    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Here is an update on the hold down.

    This attachment ...





    ... did not last well. There was too much stress on the single hole from the clamping action of the hold down. Eventually it became loose.

    I came up with another solution, this using an end shaft support. This has a much greater bearing surface as well as two fixing points. I drilled and tapped two bolt holes ...





    The hold down shaft is secured from the rear ...



    Working well.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth
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    Good mod Derek.

    From what I can see there is still a large load on two very short threads through the fence attachment plate.

    To get around this I suggest using larger countersunk screws that come through unthreaded holes from underneath the fence attachment plate and screw into threaded holes in the hole all base plate. This would enable much longer lengths of thread to be used in the hold all base.

    A problem with counter suck screws alone is they don't enable much torque to be applied. To get around this don't thread any holes in either plate and use long enough tensile screws that slide right through both plates an poke out far enough so that tensile nuts could be used Then you can really crank down on the nuts and generate a much more rigid structure.

    Better still would be to rotate the hold all base plate by 90º so the cam lifting force is in line with one of the screws in the base plate. The problem with this is it would interfere with the fence attachment locking handle. A custom base plate with 4 screws at 45º to the existing screw line would then be the next best thing.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Perth
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    Default

    Thank Bob. I have had the same thoughts as you, with the same solution in mind. I decided to just drill the two holes and thread them at this stage out of curiosity. If (when?) needed, I can enlarge the holes and chamfer them to flush-fit a head, with the nuts above the end shaft support.

    I also have a stainless steel rod holder coming. This is round and has three holes around its perimeter (I can add more). I hope the version above lasts, but I suspect that the rod holder will end up being used.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on constructing handtools, handtool reviews, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

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