Thread: Feeling a bit down....

Stuart

I've just sold my Panel Saw, mainly as it wasn't compatible with any of the goodies we sell (1/4" slots not Mitre Slots).

My research has taken me far and wide, but from my point of view the following are the considerations;

• Compatibilty with Incra gear
• Build quality
• Footprint size
• Fence design, accuracy, longevity.
• Power, blade size etc.

WHOOPS... I forgot price???

I would love a Powermatic, but I think the Jet Super Saw w/o sliding table is better value. The MBS 250 /300's are also interesting but Right Tilting?? Is this important?

How will I set up my final choice?
No, I wont put a Incra TS LS System on it as I already have a Router Table with the LS 17".

It will have an Incra 1000se Mitre Gauge + Mitre Express therefore no need for sliding table.

It will have a Wixey Saw Fence Digital Read-out and it will be on a mobile base.

Apart from the above I can't think of any other considerations.

Thoughts?

Regards

Grahame

Parallels a lot of my thinking as well - the fence is critical, mitre slot obviously, build quality

Given my workshop - mobility (only when necessary, so no sacrifices on size/weight just for that). If I can move it with difficulty, that will suffice.

Haven't experienced the mitre express as yet, but everything else Incra lives up to the name, so no doubt the express would as well.

Given my other experiences of the Wixey range, I don't doubt the saw fence readout would be a highly recommended addition.

The Supersaw is certainly on my radar, as is the TS10L that Big Shed ended up going for. I'm still confused by left vs right tilt, and which is preferable. I understand the rationale about it for ripping, but then you have the blade tilting towards the mitre gauge, so I don't know whether that is a problem (the Incra 1000SE looks primarily designed to run to the left of the blade).

(I still want to actually get a 1000SE working on the Triton too, just to prove it is possible, but that's a story for another day).

I'm still confused by left vs right tilt

The reason you're still confused is that no-one will ever be able to give you a clear cut benefit of one over the other. Each has it's pros and cons. Personally, I'd be just as happy to have left tilt as right (my saw is right). I maintain that you should look at the other features of the saw and not use left vs. right as a reason to choose one over the other, unless they are identical in every other respect.

For example, you might choose the TS10L over the TSC-10HB because it has wider rip capacity and a riving knife rather than a splitter. I think those two pros mean a lot more in real terms than the fact it is left-tilt. On the other hand, the TSC-10HB is $500 cheaper and otherwise identical. So if the rip capacity is important and you want the riving knife, then spend the extra $500. If not, save the $500 for a mobile base, a couple of nice blades and a dado set.

In fact, looking at the TS10L, I personally wouldn't even consider the Supersaw. It's a nice looking saw with 3hp motor, nice wide rip capacity, good Beisemeyer style fence. I think the only criticism I'd have is that it looks like the table is one piece, which is a pain for transport. But that might be a misconception from the photo.

Originally Posted by silentC

For example, you might choose the TS10L over the TSC-10HB because it has wider rip capacity and a riving knife rather than a splitter. I think those two pros mean a lot more in real terms than the fact it is left-tilt. On the other hand, the TSC-10HB is $500 cheaper and otherwise identical. So if the rip capacity is important and you want the riving knife, then spend the extra $500. If not, save the $500 for a mobile base, a couple of nice blades and a dado set.

Haven't got mine yet ( so I could be talking through my hat, but I understand the rip capacity of the TSC-10HB can be increased by moving the rails to the right - read somewhere it just takes a single new bolt hole. So we're down to splitter/riving knife and left/right tilt (never quite figured out why people get to intense about the tilt direction when you can move the fence to either side).

Cheers,
Adam

Originally Posted by silentC

... then spend the extra $500. If not, save the $500 for a mobile base, a couple of nice blades and a dado set.

Interestingly, the salesmen (2 of them) at a certain store in Canberra talked me out of buying a mobile base. They said if I hooked the 10HB up to a dusty and set it in the right place I shouldn't need to move it (and shouldn't want to), plus they cast serious doubts on the stability of any mobile base with a heavy machine.

I bought another blade instead.

Cheers,
Adam

I understand the rip capacity of the TSC-10HB can be increased by moving the rails to the right

Yes I've seen people do that. Trouble is, you lose a corresponding amount of capacity on the left of the blade, so if bevel ripping is something you do a lot, you might have to compromise one way or the other. You can extend the fence by either buying a bigger after market one, or by making your own rails (just a bit of box section and angle iron with some holes drilled) - but now you're talking about modifying the saw, so it's not really an apples for apples comparison when you're comparing 'out of the box'.

Suffice to say, if you want the wider rip capacity, the TS10L comes with it out of the box, whereas the TSC-10HB requires either upgrade or modification.

Having said all that, in the 4 years or so I've had the saw, I think I've need 800mm plus once or twice at the most and so I just use the hand held saw and a clamped on fence. I think the extra space taken up by the longer fence rails would be inconvenient for me.

I've got mine on a mobile base and when it is locked down, it is as solid as a rock. It is very handy because I keep it up close to the wall most of the time but can easily swing it out when I need more elbow room.

I am not trying to debate again on “left tilt vs right tilt”, “which one is safer” or “you can move the fence to the other side”. We have talked about it many times so it is not need to go there again.

Just one more thing for you to consider. You are cutting bevels on the opposite sides of a wide board. When doing the second cut, the bevelled side against the fence will not have a good support. Worse thing could happen if the bevelled edge digs into the gap between the table and fence. see pic

The top picture is bad practice. The workpiece should be on top of the blade, not under (this is the issue and the reason you must put the fence on the left when bevel ripping on a right-tilt saw).

So in fact, the bottom picture is correct for both cases, but for right tilt, the fence is on the other side.

How much room do you have to the left hand side of the blade on your tablesaw top? Mine has around 30cm.

I could see it coming and lucky I said wide boards.

Originally Posted by Wongo

Mine has around 30cm.

Wongo, are you a dressmaker!?

Cheers

If I want to use the fence, 300mm max.

That's why we say "if you do a lot of bevel ripping of boards wider than 300mm, get a left tilt saw".

If you don't, and I don't, then it doesn't matter.

I was sure it had been done-to-death elsewhere, but I appreciate the rehash here. (Dare I admit I hate searches - so many hits, so little time!)

Mmmm - so much to think about, and not all bad either

(Edit - photos of the Saw Stop now on my blog)

Originally Posted by silentC

The reason you're still confused is that no-one will ever be able to give you a clear cut benefit of one over the other. Each has it's pros and cons. Personally, I'd be just as happy to have left tilt as right (my saw is right). I maintain that you should look at the other features of the saw and not use left vs. right as a reason to choose one over the other, unless they are identical in every other respect.

For example, you might choose the TS10L over the TSC-10HB because it has wider rip capacity and a riving knife rather than a splitter. I think those two pros mean a lot more in real terms than the fact it is left-tilt. On the other hand, the TSC-10HB is $500 cheaper and otherwise identical. So if the rip capacity is important and you want the riving knife, then spend the extra $500. If not, save the $500 for a mobile base, a couple of nice blades and a dado set.

In fact, looking at the TS10L, I personally wouldn't even consider the Supersaw. It's a nice looking saw with 3hp motor, nice wide rip capacity, good Beisemeyer style fence. I think the only criticism I'd have is that it looks like the table is one piece, which is a pain for transport. But that might be a misconception from the photo.

I looked at all the Jet saws and frankly came away unimpressed. I know there are some people here that push the Jet barrow quite hard, and good on them.
However, as I have said before, some of the Jet afficionados have upgraded the motor and some have sold the original fence and bought a 50" one, the TL10S comes standard with 3hp motor (quiet as) and a superb 50" fence.

Personally I think the TL10S is a much better saw, as is the Powermatic.

The table is in 3 pieces, they just fit so well that you don't notice

Transport is not a problem, I brought it home from Melbourne in my 6x4.

The extra rip width (1200+) is a real boon, I won't go in to the right vs left debate, bit like politics, you'll never convince a right wing voter to vote left and vice versa. Suffice to say, I wouldn't buy a right tilt saw.

On the Incra1000SE, I use mine variously to the right or to the left of the blade, depending on what I am doing, it is just so easy to change over.

The Wixey digital fence has added another dimension to the TL10S, ripper easy to use, not that there was anything wrong with the existing fence, far from it.

Finally, the riving knife is worth its' weight in gold, again wouldn't buy a saw without that set up, as is the stop button on the arbor, makes it a cinch to change a blade or dado setup. No more cludgy add-ons to hold the blade in place.


End of sales pitch. (oh did I say I was satisfied TL10S owner?)