Thread: felder and hammer table saws- worth it?

I think there was a thread on this topic that you seem to have read.

Personally, I had the Minimax ST4 elite which is the equivalent competitor to what you are looking at with the Hammer/Felder. I personally don't like the Hammer, but I think the Felder is a good machine. The saw will last you a lifetime. The way I see it, you lose more money on a new car in a year than you spend in total on such a saw.

If you plan to do fiddly work like boxes and the like, you are wasting your money. If you work with a variety of project sizes, then the slider is just fantastic.

If you have the space and money, then go for it.

Originally Posted by TimberNut

I've seen discussions here saying you shouldn't buy a panel saw if your main purpose is solid timber (as mine is). Would that be applicable in this case? Surely these would stack up against a table saw any day of the week???

IMHO, yes they would.

Hi, Timbernut

You definately won't regret buying a Felder. I've got a Felder KF 700 table saw / spindle moulder combo and it was worth every penny. I don't use the spindle moulder, too dangerous, but I wanted it in a hurry and that's what they had in stock. Would have had to wait 7 months for an alternative. Not sure where you are but your welcome to come to my workshop and have a test drive.

The thing that convinced me to outlay so much dosh was when Brendan ( then with Felder) told me of a country customer who paid $ 18,000 for a Felder, used it commercially for 10 years, then sold it for $ 14,000. That's not a bad resale value.

Any way, hope all this helps. They are beautiful machines.

DIY DAN
D.I.Y. WOODWORKS

I'm not too sure about the merits of the Felder or it's cheaper cousin. What is:

- the rip capacity
- the sliding stroke?

Some years ago I bought a Minimax combo machine for around $12K. The machine rips 2.4m panels no worries, has a 4 speed spindle moulder, plus 300 capacity buzzer and thicknesser. Add a mortiser which I don't like or use.

So, at that money, why not go a step further? The Felder machines have a good rap, no question (not too sure about servicing though, which I guarantee has been great with Gabbett/ Minimax).

It all depends I guess on what you intend doing.

I just love ripping boards on the sliding table - great to get that first straight edge - on the Minimax. And then, that's out to 2.4 m long. No planing, just rip it safe and no worries. Who said a sliding table is no value for solid timber work?

Jefferson

I own a CF731 combination machine which incorporates the KF700 saw/spindle. I looked at Minimax and Robland first, lucked into the Felder second hand. I cannot emphasize enough how much a European machine will ease the common chores of sizing either panels or solid timber.

Things that affect resale pricing: Single phase power, long slider, scoring.

Get the longest slider that you can afford to both buy and house (they need just over 5 metres of dedicated floorspace for a 2.4m slider). Get the best machine that you can afford. Cry once. As you mentioned, you have a lot of years to work off the price, and a lot of years to live with your choice.

Hammer machines are quite good-about the same as the Minimax "smart" series of machines. I witnessed a 48 foot aluminium sailboat being constructed two years ago. The entire hull was cut on a first generation Hammer B3 saw...that's a lot of aluminium sheet and ribs. After the hull was welded up the machine was thoroughly cleaned then used to make the entire cabin fit-out. I was powerfully impressed, to say the least.

(The aluminium work was done with a sacrificial plywood table top fixed to the saw and lots of lube..I think the hull plates were at least 5mm thick, maybe more. )

With regard to the spindle moulder...the older style cutter heads were responsible for some horrific injuries, and even the newer style heads deserve tremendous respect. I use mine, mostly with a rebate head or cutter head with limiters. For really big jobs I mill on a friend's power feeder equipped Felder machine. I think that the addition of a spindle to the basic K500 saw is the single biggest bargain in the Felder/Hammer pricing structure.

Good luck with your decision

Greg

I guess it comes down to what you are getting more for an extra $3000 when you buy a KF500.
Certainly the Felder trimmings are there, however, from my observations, the trunion design in the KF500 is similar to that of the B3, in fact, they may be identical, I would check this out, personally, it would bother me if I bought a Felder machine that had the guts of a Hammer.
Zelk

I got a price on this one today - $3900 + GST.

http://www.usedmachineryptyltd.com/u...064&mac_cat=29

what do you reckon - good buy? or too expensive?

It only has a 2.5HP motor, and I know the Hammer and Felder have a 4HP motor (single phase). I can't run 3 phase anyway.

I used to use one, TimberNut.

They're not a bad saw but a bit on the light side.

I'd use it.

Price one new from Gabbetts - 02.9831.5044 from memory (located in Kings Park)

I have a mate who is selling his 2001 K700 Felder saw. It is single phase, it has had approximately 5 hours of use...a couple of hobby projects only. He has become an artist and does not expect to use his machines again, hence the sale. I don't reckon you would do better than a K700, it has a 2 m slider, outrigger with mitre guide system and comes with a dust collector. I think he's starting the discussion at $10,000. That's about 2/3 new price, maybe a little less, for a like new saw. More food for thought. (Machine is in Melbourne, probably cost $400-500 for shipping to Sydney.)

I think that saw that you linked is quite light, but it looks pretty unmolested. I do seem to recall reading on the yahoo minimax group that this machine is largely unloved by its owners...I think that $4200 can buy more saw than that. On the other hand if you are committed to single phase, you might be looking for a long time, and have plenty of competition.

Best,

Greg

Not at all familiar with the Felder machine referred to, but a 2m sliding table seems half-way to nowhere.

I may be wrong, but most sheet material is in 8 x 4 or 1200 x 2400 sheets. That's whiteboard, veneered MDF etc, so you are really limiting what you can do.

There are work-around solutions of course in cutting boards with a shortish sliding table, but gee at that price, why not go for the industry standard?

I've got a Minimax CU 300 Smart combo, and the rip cut at 2450 always seems too short!

If I had the time again, I'd go for a 1200mm rip capacity with 2500 table length. You'd be surprised how many times you want to square an 8 by 4 sheet as the backboard.

Anyway, don't be put off in getting the saw. I assume it has a scriber.

It will be infinitely better than a standard table saw and will do wonders for your capabilities. Nothing cuts more square than a slider with decent fences both sides.

Jefferson

I've got a 2 metre slider and like it just fine. I find that crosscutting sheets first eliminates any issues with the shorter slider.

I think the 2 m slider originated in Europe because their best plywood comes in 1.5 m square sheets, and a 2 m slider gets the sheet all the way through the blade and scorer.

In a small shop it can be difficult to dedicate a 6 X 3 metre space for a full size panel saw. For hobby use a smaller slider, perhaps coupled with a Festool TS 55 with guide rail for full panel ripping is a viable answer.

If you can only fit a 2 m slider, then go for 1250 rip capacity. Then, if you need to rip a board, you can, but you don't need to dedicate floorspace for it.


Maybe...

Gregory, 10K ?? Don't think so.

I've just been crunching the numbers with Stefan at Felder NSW, and the K700 I can get brand new for $11,200 and that's before I push them. Don't know how much room to move there is, but everything's negotiable right?

The KF 500 I can get brand new for $10,045. And that model has the spindle moulder.

Seeing as I'm probably going to buy a Hammer bandsaw off him too, that's more bargaining power.

I know the 700 series is a higher spec than the 500, but I'd rather the KF500 brand new, than the K700 second hand for the same money.

If it was the KF700 with spindle moulder, 10K would be on the money, but if it's just the saw model he might be pushing it.

I'm definately interested, as the 700 Series Felder is my preferred choice, and I want single phase, so if he wants to talk, PM me, and I'll give you my details.

I'm just the messenger

He will be willing to talk-I told him to ask 10K as I knew he paid 13K for it. I was there when it was delivered. I do know the saw has had very very little use, and I would consider it to be "as new".

It has an extension table and the dial inserts for the handles. Don't forget that Stefan's price is bare bones. Add in the outrigger table and long crosscut fence and you'll quickly get to 14K with g.s.t.. Don't forget that a dust extractor in like new condition is also included.

I'll send you a PM.

Greg

Originally Posted by TimberNut

It only has a 2.5HP motor, and I know the Hammer and Felder have a 4HP motor (single phase).

2.5hp "S1" rated motor is ~ equal to 4.0hp "S6" rated motor.

An S6 rated motor can be de-rated by 40% of its claimed power, at any given time. Hence, an S6 rated 4.0hp motor can be de-rated by 1.6hp, bringing it back to 2.4hp.

An S1 rated motor is guaranteed 100% of its claimed power 100% of the time. 2.5hp will be a genuine 2.5hp.

I would check to see the "S" ratings of each of the machines.