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4th June 2019, 06:28 PM #31
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4th June 2019 06:28 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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4th June 2019, 09:08 PM #32GOLD MEMBER
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I have heard/read this argument/justification a lot and I think it's invalid. Of course basically everyone wouldn't trade a finger or hand for $5000-. But buying a sawstop doesn't buy you a finger. You are paying to reduce the probability of cutting off a finger, the actual odds of which are dependent on many factors. So the better way to look at it, IMO, is to say - i think i have a 1 in 1000 chance of cutting off a digit on my table saw - am I happy to pay $5000- to reduce this 1/1000 chance to maybe 1/1000000 (sawstop can still fail). If it's a 1 /1000 chance then you are effectively comparing the value of your finger to 1000 x ($5000+cost of misfires over the life) = approx. $5,000,000+ .
Now i'm not saying a sawstop isn't a good idea for some/many. But I don't think it's a good deal for everyone. So I certainly don't support forcing it on anyone.
Cheers, Dom
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4th June 2019, 11:31 PM #33
There's a different way of looking at this.
A table saw with the quality of a Saw Stop (I'm talking, say, the PCS here) is at least worth $2500-$3000 without any safety built in.
Couple that with the fact that the Saw Stop PCS with 30" fence is $4600.
I look at the whole thing a lot simpler.
I say that you're paying around $1500 for the safety technology as a premium on top of what is already a pretty good table saw with excellent customer service to back it up.
So now, each buyer can decide - is the safety feature, which might not be foolproof (nor are seat belts and car air bags!) in the event of an accident worth $1500?
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5th June 2019, 08:04 AM #34GOLD MEMBER
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Yes, but only if you don't already own a table saw that you are otherwise happy with or are looking to buy your first saw. The only other cost you have to take into account, and one of the reasons I don't like the Sawstop tech (and why I much prefer this new Felder approach) is the ongoing cost of cartridge and blade replacement for activation's due to inadvertent contact with metal, wet wood etc.
Anyway, each to their own. I would much rather buy a Hammer C3 (without the safety tech) than a Sawstop if I was looking to buy a replacement saw. Maybe by the time I'm ready the Felder tech trickles down to these and I can buy a used one cheap .
Cheers,
Dom
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5th June 2019, 08:56 AM #35.
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In the last twelve months I've been working with my new Al and polycarbonate OH TS guard. Mainly I use it to cut plastic and Al, and the most common wood I'm cutting is usually MDF, so dust extraction is a priority.TSguard1.jpgIt's size occasionally makes it a tad awkward to work around, but it's dust extraction is the best I have ever seen and I have to partially block off the extraction to prevent small pieces I need to keep from going up the into the extraction system.It can be easily swung from side to side to accomodate quite narrow cuts and it can be swung right up out of the way if required. The weight and action does a really good job of pinning work pieces down onto the table top and makes it difficult to pull work out backwards without deliberately raising the guard. This also helps prevents the workpieces from rising up at the back of the blade reducing the chances of kickback But best of all and completely unintentionally it's sheer bulk is proving very good at keeping my fingers well away from the blade. One reason I know this is because my pile of push sticks has built up and I've had to get longer ones to get materials up to the blade. Now I don't pretend this is a sawstop and I realise it's also not going to suit everyones style of working or work place but I'd say it has definitely reduced my chances of an injury with this machine.On reflection I am surprised that over the years so few improvements have been made to TS OH guards.
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5th June 2019, 11:55 AM #36GOLD MEMBER
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Bob, Instead of reducing the extraction put a mesh guard in it to catch small pieces.
CHRIS
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5th June 2019, 12:18 PM #37GOLD MEMBER
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Bob, Instead of reducing the extraction put a mesh guard in it to catch small pieces.
CHRIS
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5th June 2019, 06:05 PM #38Woodworking mechanic
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5th June 2019, 07:40 PM #39Taking a break
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Good luck trying to instantly stop a buzzer or spindle moulder without totally destroying something.
The only reason they can make it work on saws is that the rotating mass is fairly low and the diameter of the blade makes for high stopping torque. If you were to try to jam something into a 20-30kg buzzer head spinning at 5000 rpm, you could well destroy the entire machine and I'm pretty sure that's not a good business model...
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6th June 2019, 06:34 AM #40SENIOR MEMBER
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SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12
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6th June 2019, 06:42 AM #41SENIOR MEMBER
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I know. but I will leave the "how to" to the manufacturer/inventer,
perhaps it doesnt need to be stopped? perhaps the head can instantly "pulled back " if flesh is sensed?
I did consider upgrading my spindle moulder but looking at the prices Felder spindle moulder and safety of things one might as well get a small solid wood CNC.SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12
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6th June 2019, 09:48 AM #42Senior Member
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My two cents are that I think the SS tech could introduce a level of complacency with some people. Also, if you cannot apply the same level of concentration to a table saw as you would any other finger ripping bit of gear, then you've probably got some issues and likely shouldn't be using the TS in the first place.
Finally, if you're running a board across the saw in the following manner, you deserve what you get, I mean FFS what's that.
maxresdefault.jpg
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6th June 2019, 09:59 AM #43Taking a break
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There are very few accidents that are genuine accidents and not caused by any combination of poor work practises, disregard for basic safety gear (overhead guards and riving knives) and simply not paying full attention to the task.
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6th June 2019, 10:36 AM #44GOLD MEMBER
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I have just built a cross cut sled for my Sawstop. All the Youtubes,etc show a sled being built and used without the guard and riving knife as shown above.
I have modified mine to allow the guard and knife to stay on by putting a "bridge" on the back fence that allows the fence to pass over the guard The only difference is that the anti-kick back claws have to be folded up so that the sled can be withdrawn. I figure that there is not likely to be any significant kick back on cross cuts in the sled.
I have also put a thick block on the back of the front fence so that the blade is not exposed when it comes through the fence as the cut is finished.
I hope that all makes sense.
I bought the Sawstop because of its quality. The safety is an added bonus but I do not intend to relax my concentration when using it.Tom
"It's good enough" is low aim
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6th June 2019, 12:45 PM #45GOLD MEMBER
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