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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lappa View Post
    Yes it will. There is a big sign and a Red and Green light above the SS at my local Mens Shed. You are not allowed to remove your timber or scraps etc until the Green light is on for this very reason.
    So if you smash one who pays, does it only destroy the blade and the charge/break?

    Just interested
    I like to move it move it, I like to move it.

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  3. #32
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    Mar 2015
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    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillyInBris View Post
    I showed my wife the SS last night and then told her the price and I was surprised when she said well 5k how much are your fingers and hands worth.
    I have heard/read this argument/justification a lot and I think it's invalid. Of course basically everyone wouldn't trade a finger or hand for $5000-. But buying a sawstop doesn't buy you a finger. You are paying to reduce the probability of cutting off a finger, the actual odds of which are dependent on many factors. So the better way to look at it, IMO, is to say - i think i have a 1 in 1000 chance of cutting off a digit on my table saw - am I happy to pay $5000- to reduce this 1/1000 chance to maybe 1/1000000 (sawstop can still fail). If it's a 1 /1000 chance then you are effectively comparing the value of your finger to 1000 x ($5000+cost of misfires over the life) = approx. $5,000,000+ .

    Now i'm not saying a sawstop isn't a good idea for some/many. But I don't think it's a good deal for everyone. So I certainly don't support forcing it on anyone.

    Cheers, Dom

  4. #33
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    Jul 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by DomAU View Post
    I have heard/read this argument/justification a lot and I think it's invalid. Of course basically everyone wouldn't trade a finger or hand for $5000-. But buying a sawstop doesn't buy you a finger. You are paying to reduce the probability of cutting off a finger, the actual odds of which are dependent on many factors. So the better way to look at it, IMO, is to say - i think i have a 1 in 1000 chance of cutting off a digit on my table saw - am I happy to pay $5000- to reduce this 1/1000 chance to maybe 1/1000000 (sawstop can still fail). If it's a 1 /1000 chance then you are effectively comparing the value of your finger to 1000 x ($5000+cost of misfires over the life) = approx. $5,000,000+ .
    There's a different way of looking at this.

    A table saw with the quality of a Saw Stop (I'm talking, say, the PCS here) is at least worth $2500-$3000 without any safety built in.

    Couple that with the fact that the Saw Stop PCS with 30" fence is $4600.

    I look at the whole thing a lot simpler.

    I say that you're paying around $1500 for the safety technology as a premium on top of what is already a pretty good table saw with excellent customer service to back it up.

    So now, each buyer can decide - is the safety feature, which might not be foolproof (nor are seat belts and car air bags!) in the event of an accident worth $1500?

  5. #34
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    Mar 2015
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    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Man View Post
    There's a different way of looking at this.

    A table saw with the quality of a Saw Stop (I'm talking, say, the PCS here) is at least worth $2500-$3000 without any safety built in.

    Couple that with the fact that the Saw Stop PCS with 30" fence is $4600.

    I look at the whole thing a lot simpler.

    I say that you're paying around $1500 for the safety technology as a premium on top of what is already a pretty good table saw with excellent customer service to back it up.

    So now, each buyer can decide - is the safety feature, which might not be foolproof (nor are seat belts and car air bags!) in the event of an accident worth $1500?

    Yes, but only if you don't already own a table saw that you are otherwise happy with or are looking to buy your first saw. The only other cost you have to take into account, and one of the reasons I don't like the Sawstop tech (and why I much prefer this new Felder approach) is the ongoing cost of cartridge and blade replacement for activation's due to inadvertent contact with metal, wet wood etc.

    Anyway, each to their own. I would much rather buy a Hammer C3 (without the safety tech) than a Sawstop if I was looking to buy a replacement saw. Maybe by the time I'm ready the Felder tech trickles down to these and I can buy a used one cheap .

    Cheers,

    Dom

  6. #35
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    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    In the last twelve months I've been working with my new Al and polycarbonate OH TS guard. Mainly I use it to cut plastic and Al, and the most common wood I'm cutting is usually MDF, so dust extraction is a priority.TSguard1.jpgIt's size occasionally makes it a tad awkward to work around, but it's dust extraction is the best I have ever seen and I have to partially block off the extraction to prevent small pieces I need to keep from going up the into the extraction system.It can be easily swung from side to side to accomodate quite narrow cuts and it can be swung right up out of the way if required. The weight and action does a really good job of pinning work pieces down onto the table top and makes it difficult to pull work out backwards without deliberately raising the guard. This also helps prevents the workpieces from rising up at the back of the blade reducing the chances of kickback But best of all and completely unintentionally it's sheer bulk is proving very good at keeping my fingers well away from the blade. One reason I know this is because my pile of push sticks has built up and I've had to get longer ones to get materials up to the blade. Now I don't pretend this is a sawstop and I realise it's also not going to suit everyones style of working or work place but I'd say it has definitely reduced my chances of an injury with this machine.On reflection I am surprised that over the years so few improvements have been made to TS OH guards.

  7. #36
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    Jun 2005
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    Helensburgh
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    Bob, Instead of reducing the extraction put a mesh guard in it to catch small pieces.
    CHRIS

  8. #37
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    Bob, Instead of reducing the extraction put a mesh guard in it to catch small pieces.
    CHRIS

  9. #38
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    Jan 2014
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    Sydney Upper North Shore
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    Quote Originally Posted by WillyInBris View Post
    So if you smash one who pays, does it only destroy the blade and the charge/break?

    Just interested
    Not sure on that. They haven’t lost one since the sign and light went up. I joined after they went up.

  10. #39
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    If I am to have technology like this in my workshop. it will need to be on ALL of my machines, not just panel saw/table saw, if not, I rather not to have any at all.
    Good luck trying to instantly stop a buzzer or spindle moulder without totally destroying something.

    The only reason they can make it work on saws is that the rotating mass is fairly low and the diameter of the blade makes for high stopping torque. If you were to try to jam something into a 20-30kg buzzer head spinning at 5000 rpm, you could well destroy the entire machine and I'm pretty sure that's not a good business model...

  11. #40
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    May 2013
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    Auckland, New Zealand
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    Are you being a dinosaur?
    Seriously, if you need PCS technology available on ALL your machines before you will consider upgrading it will be a very long wait before you need to consider an upgrade.

    More to the point, most workshops have a table saw of some description. Much fewer workshops have any one of a thicky, jointer, table mounted router, etc.
    no, I am not being a dinosaur... its just that this will bring in complacency when using machines, no technology can replace common sense and our brain. this technology certainly helps prevents injury.

    If I have employee working on my machines I will get this technology.
    SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12



  12. #41
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    May 2013
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    Auckland, New Zealand
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    I know. but I will leave the "how to" to the manufacturer/inventer,
    perhaps it doesnt need to be stopped? perhaps the head can instantly "pulled back " if flesh is sensed?

    I did consider upgrading my spindle moulder but looking at the prices Felder spindle moulder and safety of things one might as well get a small solid wood CNC.
    SCM L'Invincibile si X, SCM L'Invincibile S7, SCM TI 145EP, SCM Sandya Win 630, Masterwood OMB1V, Meber 600, Delta RJ42, Nederman S750, Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500, Ceccato CDX12



  13. #42
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    Jun 2015
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    Mexico. Actual Mexico not Victoria.
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    My two cents are that I think the SS tech could introduce a level of complacency with some people. Also, if you cannot apply the same level of concentration to a table saw as you would any other finger ripping bit of gear, then you've probably got some issues and likely shouldn't be using the TS in the first place.

    Finally, if you're running a board across the saw in the following manner, you deserve what you get, I mean FFS what's that.

    maxresdefault.jpg

  14. #43
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    There are very few accidents that are genuine accidents and not caused by any combination of poor work practises, disregard for basic safety gear (overhead guards and riving knives) and simply not paying full attention to the task.

  15. #44
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    Jun 2003
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    Sunbury, Vic
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    I have just built a cross cut sled for my Sawstop. All the Youtubes,etc show a sled being built and used without the guard and riving knife as shown above.
    I have modified mine to allow the guard and knife to stay on by putting a "bridge" on the back fence that allows the fence to pass over the guard The only difference is that the anti-kick back claws have to be folded up so that the sled can be withdrawn. I figure that there is not likely to be any significant kick back on cross cuts in the sled.
    I have also put a thick block on the back of the front fence so that the blade is not exposed when it comes through the fence as the cut is finished.
    I hope that all makes sense.
    I bought the Sawstop because of its quality. The safety is an added bonus but I do not intend to relax my concentration when using it.
    Tom

    "It's good enough" is low aim

  16. #45
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    Jun 2005
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    Helensburgh
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    Quote Originally Posted by elanjacobs View Post


    There are very few accidents that are genuine accidents and not caused by any combination of poor work practises, disregard for basic safety gear (overhead guards and riving knives) and simply not paying full attention to the task.
    Taken to the extreme there is no such thing as an accident and that is why there are root cause analysis studies done after such events.
    CHRIS

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