Thread: Hafco ST-12D vs Sherwood SWMS-300 - same same, or different?

I have the hafco st12d and it looks pretty similar to the Sherwood heavy duty 12 inch cabinet saw. Only difference is the shape of the cabinet (Sherwood slants in at the front) and the Sherwood has an additional emergency stop button on the left of the blade. Not sure if these differences warrant an additional $1000 in the price. The Hafco ST12D is a great saw too BTW, I've never had an issue once I installed a riving knife in the place of the overhead guard. Cheers, Zac

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Why do people say these saws are the same? They look nothing alike and the tables are different sizes (950 x 690 for the ST-12D and 1220 x 764 for the MBS-300, yes over 40% larger). I've no idea if the internals are the same but the stated difference in cutting capacity at 90 degrees, 95mm for the ST-12D and 101mm for the MBS-300, would indicate that there is some difference in the cabinet mounting of the mechanicals and/or the mounting of the table on the cabinet.

Timbecon are a bit of a price leader with their machinery so it doesn't make sense to me that they'd be marketing something that is a clone of another retailers machine for a significantly higher price.

the sherwood looks like an updated version of the hafco st-12d with a larger table size and cabinet shape .
the outrigger on the sherwood is the same as the one i have on my st-12d .
only issues i have are [1] the unit needs to bolted to the ground when using the outrigger because heavy timber has a tendency to tip the machine[hopefully sherwood have fixed this problem with the larger table]
[2]the riving knife is PITA to change [3] the hafco and the sherwood blade is very close to the edge of the cast iron table making it very difficult to get a zero clearance plate to fit only about 1/8" between blade and table .Other than that the st-12d is a good and accurate machine to use and with the ability to take a dado set which i use frequently, also the outrigger is great for cutting long bits of timber such as one inch off a five foot long piece of redgum [if i could still get some]
hope this helps

Thanks for your replies, good to hear from a couple of actual users.

Looks like there is no substantive reason to avoid the Hafco, so that's what I'll go with.

Thanks again.

Well it finally arrived the other day and whenever I get a minute I've been removing cosmoline from the cast iron with kero.

Wiring remains an issue for now. I think I'd prefer a 20A outlet installed vs direct connection. Zac and Carlow, did you end up with a round pin or flat pin socket installed? Or did you get the saw wired direct?

The shed could probably do with one or two 15A sockets anyway. This just adds to the bill......

Originally Posted by garagegrump

Well it finally arrived the other day and whenever I get a minute I've been removing cosmoline from the cast iron with kero.

Wiring remains an issue for now. I think I'd prefer a 20A outlet installed vs direct connection. Zac and Carlow, did you end up with a round pin or flat pin socket installed? Or did you get the saw wired direct?

The shed could probably do with one or two 15A sockets anyway. This just adds to the bill......

I think you'll find the "round pin" plugs are 3 phase.... so unless you have 3phase power at your house you will be looking at the normal single phase (flat pin) style plug. I would also NOT consider hard wiring it, mainly as this takes away and portability as you can't just unplug it.

Hey mate, my saw came with a 15A plug. 4 or 5 round pins on the plug means you have a 3phase motor installed on the machine, which requires 3 phase power (410V). I didn't buy mine new, but I think you have an option with these saws to choose 240V or 410V. Maybe just double check which version of motor you ordered. Cheers, Zac.

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Zac and Havabeer, thanks for your replies and concern, but I know what machine I got

I will clarify. The saw is a single phase 3HP machine, which to my estimation would normally need a 15A plug, as Zac's has. I've already started it on a 10A socket (dodgy I know) just to check that it runs before moving on with the build/installation.

However the saw does not come with its own cord. You are expected to wire to a terminal block on the cabinet. The manufacturer and HAFCO both specify a 20A connection (see the listing for the saw on the website - linked in my original post). Regardless of how I do that, I will need a sparky to upgrade the garage sub-board, and add a new circuit with a 32A breaker.

As I see it I have three options for wiring to the machine:

1. Direct wiring - for some reason this seems to be what the manufacturer wants me to do - but that seems dumb to me. Why would you permanently wire a machine that has wheels to move it around???? Also the least flexible for future upgrades/machinery.
2. A flat pin 20A GPO - common for ovens, aircons and water heaters. Looks like a regular 10A but with three wide pins.
3. A round pin 20A GPO - these are made by Clipsal et al and many working in industrial settings prefer it to the flat-pin GPO. It looks like a 3 phase outlet (from a distance) but it's not. See here for an example: Easy56 Switched Socket, 3 PIN, 20A, 250V

Setting aside the above, it is very odd that HAFCO want me to use a 20A circuit. For 3HP, 15A should be enough. Maybe somewhere out there there was a shed fire that got blamed on one of these saws....

If I were you, seeing the price of that round pin switch you linked to would be enough for me to make up my mind. Unless I could procure the required bits from the demolition yard.

Originally Posted by garagegrump

Zac and Havabeer, thanks for your replies and concern, but I know what machine I got

I will clarify. The saw is a single phase 3HP machine, which to my estimation would normally need a 15A plug, as Zac's has. I've already started it on a 10A socket (dodgy I know) just to check that it runs before moving on with the build/installation.

However the saw does not come with its own cord. You are expected to wire to a terminal block on the cabinet. The manufacturer and HAFCO both specify a 20A connection (see the listing for the saw on the website - linked in my original post). Regardless of how I do that, I will need a sparky to upgrade the garage sub-board, and add a new circuit with a 32A breaker.

As I see it I have three options for wiring to the machine:

1. Direct wiring - for some reason this seems to be what the manufacturer wants me to do - but that seems dumb to me. Why would you permanently wire a machine that has wheels to move it around???? Also the least flexible for future upgrades/machinery.
2. A flat pin 20A GPO - common for ovens, aircons and water heaters. Looks like a regular 10A but with three wide pins.
3. A round pin 20A GPO - these are made by Clipsal et al and many working in industrial settings prefer it to the flat-pin GPO. It looks like a 3 phase outlet (from a distance) but it's not. See here for an example: Easy56 Switched Socket, 3 PIN, 20A, 250V

Setting aside the above, it is very odd that HAFCO want me to use a 20A circuit. For 3HP, 15A should be enough. Maybe somewhere out there there was a shed fire that got blamed on one of these saws....

$415!!! Jesus wouldn't want to be doing the whole shed in them, and the fact you pay $2700... and the cheap bastards won't even put a rated plug on it for you.


also in your original link in the OP, you posted the W455 which is a 415v 5hp machine. I believe your talking about the W454 which is the 240v 3hp version.

Originally Posted by havabeer69

$415!!! Jesus wouldn't want to be doing the whole shed in them, and the fact you pay $2700... and the cheap bastards won't even put a rated plug on it for you.


also in your original link in the OP, you posted the W455 which is a 415v 5hp machine. I believe your talking about the W454 which is the 240v 3hp version.

Yes its the W454 (240V).

I don't know what price Clipsal is quoting for. Probably for a case of 6. I've seen them individually online for about $80. Still a lot pricier than a 20A flat pin socket from the green church, but they're supposed to be a lot more rugged and reliable. By the sounds of your posts, you'd probably just go with one of these (DETA X6 20Amp Single Power Point - Bunnings Australia) instead?

HAFCO's position on this is certainly annoying. I guess I just decided that for the kind of capacity and small footprint I wanted, this was the saw to get right now, and I only have to deal with these technicalities once as I get it set up.

Regardless what saw I got, I knew going-in that I'd need a couple of higher current GPOs installed.

My plan is to first turn the saw into a "plug-in" machine (get a rated cable, ring terminals and plug, and put them together), then get the sparky in to quote for the wiring for GPOs etc. I just don't want to buy a plug and matching GPO only for the sparky to arrive, laugh, and then charge me for the privilege.

Cheers.

Just hard wire it with an isolator.

Hi when i got my hafco st-12d it came prewired with a 20amp flat pin.
i had a 20 amp outlet installed when i built my workshop
it comes in handy for not only the table saw but also the thicknesser and planer which also require a 20 amp outlet. if you can get a plug installed it comes in handy.
have fun carlow

Have you considered using a 16A caravan style plug and socket .. nice and cheap plug the decent makes ABB ceenorm .Reyrole , Menekkers will run 20A through them all day . RS and element 14 sell descent ones and sensible money , I used to use them in the PA and lighting game ..They make 32A ones too .
Best of luck with the saw .. Im just about to buy a Holytek 300 with sliding table , already fitted my workshop with a couple of 16A sockets ( saw and thicknesser )