Thread: Newbie with the usual (ish) table saw conundrum

All those machines you have linked to have small table tops made of pressed metal so don't think they will be that much better than a triton.
The next big jump will be a TS with a cast iron top which will be and remain a lot flatter than those cheap saws.

If all you wish to cut is panels then a good quality circular saw, a set of good saw horses and a long length of RH aluminium to act as a straight edge will do as good a job or maybe better that those table saws.

Did you see this one, or is it outside your budget? No idea where it is in relation to you. Even though it is older, it would be far superior to what you are looking at.
The two you listed would be roughly equivalent to Triton.

I agree with tree cycle.
That saw is similar to one I have and although the accessories are on the flimsy side the cast iron table top is solid.
If you could get that table saw for $450 (especially with it being a 12" saw with 3 12" blades) that would be a good deal and would last a long time.
If it helps I might be able to go and have a look at it with you?

Thanks guys, that makes sense. It is a bit beyond my budget right now (well the wifes budget anyway) been going around in circles on this for the last year (I got caught looking at triton units on my honeymoon)

Some good points, perhaps I am better off getting a couple of good saw horses, learning how to make a jig and that will give me the right depth. It would be hard to justify the expense right now.

Incidentally was just at the big green house again (took my 6 month old, figured might as well start the 50 year cycle early) and they had einhall table saw for $160. Hate to think what quality that would be.

Sooo, will start reading up on jigs and next weekend will probably post a question about how they work!

Next question: What makes a good saw horse, I thought they were just a lump of wood with some feet so you dont have to cut on milkcrates (my current method)

I'll post a slightly different point of view, by giving my personal experience.

Like you, my woodworking is, and started out as a hobby. I'm a teacher. I spend the day inside and only occasionally get out into the shed to go woodworking.
Like you, I started out wanting to just fix things up, or do renovation/restoration-level jobs. I read all the forums, saw all the (actually pretty sound and sensible) advice to save and buy a good one with a cast iron table etc... Then, I saw the price.

At that point, I had to weigh it up; buy a cheap table saw and have a table saw to use now, or wait a couple of years with no table saw until I had enough money saved.

So, I bought the cheapest tablesaw I could find - from Aldi. For around $170.

It is very light, has an aluminium top, only 75mm depth of cut and a relatively weak 2400W motor. But, it cuts straight, can do angled cuts, non-through cuts with the riving knife removed, and with taking it slowly, can cut hardwoods (I mostly used it to cut redgum) to full depth of cut.

I bought it 4 years ago in that time it has helped me build wooden railings, a doll's house, a bandsaw, rocking horse, shelves, a built-in robe, a vanity unit, power tool stands, a kid's teepee, jewelry and sewing boxes, boxes for portable power tools, cabinets, a chook run and many other things.

It still goes after 4 years, but it is underpowered for what I have asked it to do at times, has appalling dust extraction facilities, the fence needs to be tightened on with a quick-release clamp (but is still square, and is easy to shim if not) and most importantly, I have outgrown its capabilities.


But without it (at the princely sum of $42.50 per year) I wouldn't have built the skills and knowledge to outgrow it. And I would still be saving for that gee-whiz top quality table saw and would have built none of the things I have these last 4 years.


Now that I've outgrown it, I have the decision to make: what to replace it with? For me, the answer has become clear - I'm not going to replace it. These 4 years have seen me drift into more and more hand tool use, and for all through cuts, I use the bandsaw anyway. And because it's so small and light, I am going to remove it from the table I made for it, put it on a shelf and pull it out only when I need to do a lot of crosscuts (using the crosscut sled I built using it in the first place). I don't have a half-ton monstrosity to try and move or divest myself of.

If I had decided that a more power-assisted woodworking approach was for me, I now know enough about what I want and need in a table saw to make a more informed decision about my next machine. This is the stage I'm at with my lathe, and the saving has started because the lathe I want and need is more than 5 times the cost of my old one.

For me, it was the right decision to go bottom-of-the-range. As a beginning hobbyist woodworker I did this for almost all my powertools (the hand drill being an honorary exception), and haven't had a moment's regret. They all do the job they're meant to, they haven't broken down (probably because as a weekend woodworker, they don't get over-used or abused) and with the money saved, I've been able to stock up on good quality secondhand hand-tools that I would otherwise not have been able to afford. Plus, with those machines I have decided I don't like/want/need, I haven't wasted a lot of money on them.

Anyway, that's how I see it. I'm sure many others will disagree.

Thanks Michael

That is a similar point of view to where I am coming from. I am living in a house that needs some very basic work over the next 3 or 4 years, I have already bought the next house which I am renting for now, so I know that in 4 years I will be moving into a house that doesnt even have a shed, and definitely won't have room for a dedicated garage. The most valid part of the feedback I have been getting is the accuracy of cut, as to me if the cheap stuff isnt going to give me accurate cuts then it defeats the purpose. If someone said model "cheap x" is good provided you invest in some heavy duty clamps to stop the rail from moving then that would suit. I dont see myself cutting hard woods or getting to the point of making drawers, at the moment it is more that I cant afford to have someone else build it for me! If I find that I really enjoy it and would like to do it as a hobby (I count a hobby as something that you do for fun that you dont actually have to do) then I will have to first convince my wife that I can have a garage, and then I can go and buy the high quality gear.

I think I need to find a friend who has something I can play with so I can see what everyone is talking about. (I prefer hands on practice to theory)

Thank you all for the great advice and warm welcome.

Originally Posted by Rychous

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Incidentally was just at the big green house again (took my 6 month old, figured might as well start the 50 year cycle early) and they had einhall table saw for $160. Hate to think what quality that would be.

Sooo, will start reading up on jigs and next weekend will probably post a question about how they work!

You won't need a depth jig, the saws already have depth adjustment built into them

Next question: What makes a good saw horse, I thought they were just a lump of wood with some feet so you dont have to cut on milkcrates (my current method)

They need to be strong, rigid, and have a top suited to clamping something to them and I like the ones that can be folded up and put away, but this is not always compatible with rigidity.

My first table saw was an EzyCut which was about 10 years old when I got it.
It is a combo machine with 8" blade, 4" planer and dowel drilling chuck and table.
It has a sheet metal frame but a cast iron tables for all three machines but being small it still only weighs about 80 kg, (even my 12" table saw only weighs 150 kg) so not even close to half a ton.
I got it the year we got married and paid the then hefty sum of $400 for it - using Michael_m's annual cost method it comes to a whopping $11.11 per year .

Over the years and when I knew no better the Ezycut has been subject to much abuse. It has put splays on dozens of 3 m long lengths of 150 mm wide skirting, cut ~200 paving bricks, cut firewood, ripped countless 4x2's in half plus done a heap of "normal work".

About 8 years ago I bought a 12" table saw and the Ezycut just sat in a corner collecting dust and I was just about to put it out on the verge for council pick up when I stuck a 125 mm diameter thin kerf metal cutting wheel in it and it has been become one of my most commonly used metal work tool in my shed. I use id mainly for cutting sheet metal and metal stock up to 1/2" thick. Recently I bought a metal cutting bandsaw and just upgraded my compressor so I can run a plasma cutter so I could I'm thinking of doing up the Exycut and giving to to my son as his first table saw.

Originally Posted by Rychous

Next question: What makes a good saw horse, I thought they were just a lump of wood with some feet so you dont have to cut on milkcrates (my current method)

You might want to look at this article.

http://d2amilv9vi9flo.cloudfront.net...//Sawbench.pdf

Much more versatile than a saw horse, but then it is designed for hand tools while a saw horse is suited to power tools.

I have a bad back so I like the idea of something that you can sit on while working with the ability to apply a hold-down like a mini-bench.

have a look at it anyway. you might like it. I do.

Cheers

Doug

You could also consider a track saw; that'll give you straight cutting ability and something that doesn't need a garage to store.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqqcmC5UY5E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbPLc0lGdFw

Yeah sorry, need to start learning the lingo, I meant depth of the shelving, as in when I cut the 20 plus sheets rather than measuring them all to set something up so I can just cut them all the same width. I refuse to measure each one individually on the grounds that I am lazy and we are separated from the apes by our ability to use power tools...

Track Saw looks interesting, might have to go have a look.

Saw horses I guess there is always going to be a compromise between rigidity and fold away storage.

Should be fun, will let you all know how my shelving unit goes when I manage to get it within the top 10 of my to do list. (Currently lots of the fun things are on the list like bathroom leaks and all the fixing water damage that accompanies it, flooring, skirting, painting and fixing taps. Ah the joys of owning a house!)

Thanks peeps, I think from here on in i'm going to start a "getting tooled up fund"

+1 for the track saw option. They're great for chopping up sheet goods.

Aldi had a re-badged version of the Sheppach that was on sale for $179, then $129, then $69! But that is of little use to us in Perth as we have no Aldi stores here. It puts the $297 Sheppach price into perspective though considering it is the exact same saw. Here is a review. Strangely H&F consider the track for this "track saw" an optional extra and sell the saw by itself for $242. Just found manufacturer refurb models of the Taurus on eBay for $150 shipped if you wanted to try your luck.

The cheaper option is a circular saw and DIY a guide like this or this.

Lastly, I will echo michael_m's sentiments regarding "cheap" machinery. If you don't need to build things accurate to fractions of a millimeter and just want to get the job done, then with a bit of patience and understanding a cheap machine can serve you well.

my wood working started very similar to yours, Rychous.

And depends on where you are going with this hobby of yours, do you want to make money out of it? or just stay as hobby?

I started with wife saying she needed something, and we couldnt find it on the market, I told her I can make it, realised I need a mitre saw. bought a $50 saw from Bunnings, turned it on once, brought it back, paid another $200 and got myself a Makita weekend warrior type non sliding mitre saw.

By the time I have made the things she wanted, I have spent nearly $1000NZD on the tools and material - back then I thought that was a lot of money for tools, so I started offering my service to the local.

that was 5 years ago.

now my workshop comprises of the following:

Robland NX410 Pro combination machine. 2.2kw x 3
Masterwood OMB1V slot mortiser, 2.2kw
SCM S400P band saw, 3kw
SCM Uno 930mm wide belt sander, 11kw
Omga mitre saw
Hydrovane 43 compressor, 7.5kw, 40CFM FAD monster... but awefully quiet.
Festool 700 Domino, Festool orbital sander, Festool CT36 vacuum
2 x Frontline Clamps, expensive but does the job!
20+ x Bessey clamps
10+ Sash clamps
Holytek multi bag extractor, 4kw
Holytek mortiser
3 phase power
Pallet mover (made in Japan, they know how to make things right)
Engine crane (made in Spain, thought I help out their troubled economy)

only the wide belt sander, extractor, the omga saw and the compressor I didnt buy new. the top two items alone costed over $30k , I hate to imagine how much it all costed, probably in excess of $60k NZD, I have made over $60k from my woodwork in the last 5 years, thats working additional 2 hours a day randomly after my normal day work and working on some Saturdays.

of course I didnt jump suddenly from a Makita mitre saw to all of this, during the last 5 years I have bought and sold a cast iron 10" table saw from Carbatec, a 15" Somac planer, Makita Orbital sander, Makita Router, Makita cordless 18v drill, Makita LS1016 SCMS, 3hp shaving extractor and various Chinese clamps.

my experience is that, if you are going to buy a tool and make good money out of it, buy Italian/German/Japanese, its an investment. but if you are only using it once every blue moon, then listen to your wife about what you can buy

Well thanks all for the different ideas and thoughts. Albert, I am drooling at the half of your list that I can understand, and really think you must have an awesome wife! I dont think I will ever be doing it to make money, but stranger things of happened I guess!

After much to'ing and fro'ing my decisions were...

Sticking the SCMS, jigsaw and band saw on hold until I actually need any of them.

Going to make up a DIY guide while I am saving and looking at a decent tablesaw. Figure these are cheaper and I believe will be better value than buying and modding a cheap track saw. (Mainly as I already own a circular saw)

Oh, and in regards to saw horses and work benches, I have been using a work platform up until now, but didn't like it due to the fact it was a little too narrow and marked the wood. (Funny story is that the work platform was purchased to let me paint in high points inside the house, but didn't take into account my height and couldn't stand up straight on it, so reverted to two milk crates side by side with a piece of wood on the top.) So solved that over the weekend by sticking a large lump of MDF over the top attached with some countersunk bolts with wingnuts on it. Nice and sturdy, takes 2 minutes to take it off if ever I need it as a work platform, which only thing I can think of is if I am painting gutters. Looked at all the new age work trestles and they were all too short, and I am a fan of the knee on the bench. Plus I figure when I do eventually purchase a tablesaw it will give me an added working platform for cutting. Everything I do has to be mobile as I can't stand up straight in my shed!

Only bit I am stuck on now is that the way my circular saw sits I dont have a huge amount of height to play with for DIY guide, and stuggled at the big green shed to find a straight piece of wood to use as my guide! Thinking of using some aluminium right angle.