Thread: Panel saw - steps for buying a used one

Well, basically you have nailed the big issues. I would check with the local agent about parts for the slider, since those parts might be the hardest to find, depending on design.

Panel saws seem quite often to be sold with issues, hence the sale. ( I sometimes see older SCM saws on Facebook photographed in a paddock or parking lot which is an insult to everyone, frankly)

The normal wear items would be belts and bearings, both commodity items. Depending on use, I imagine eventually the height and angle adjusting mechanisms might see wear.

Another thing to avoid would be early 2000’s electronic machines, the electronics for which aren’t supported anymore.

I am a hobbyist with Felder machines. The saws you mention are a step up from that. When I commission a new (used) machine I mostly check belt, listen for noise, check runout with a dial indicator, check the slider trajectory in three dimensions etc.

I think there are a few saws for sale recently that might be flood damaged…something else to be wary of.

Where are you located?

Originally Posted by Greg Q

Well, basically you have nailed the big issues. I would check with the local agent about parts for the slider, since those parts might be the hardest to find, depending on design.

Panel saws seem quite often to be sold with issues, hence the sale. ( I sometimes see older SCM saws on Facebook photographed in a paddock or parking lot which is an insult to everyone, frankly)

The normal wear items would be belts and bearings, both commodity items. Depending on use, I imagine eventually the height and angle adjusting mechanisms might see wear.

Another thing to avoid would be early 2000’s electronic machines, the electronics for which aren’t supported anymore.

I am a hobbyist with Felder machines. The saws you mention are a step up from that. When I commission a new (used) machine I mostly check belt, listen for noise, check runout with a dial indicator, check the slider trajectory in three dimensions etc.

I think there are a few saws for sale recently that might be flood damaged…something else to be wary of.

Where are you located?

Thanks heaps for the response, great tips.

I have an electrical background and used to work with alot of 3ph/1ph motors, hence the reason for going with an older mechanical based machine. I know that if electronics fail in the newer machines, that can be a very difficult fix.

Bearings and belts should be readily available for most machines. After all, at the end of the day, the older machines consist of an small induction motor coupled with a belt. The issue with these old motors is trying to find a replacement with the same frame size, so more often than not overhaul is the only option. There are shops that can do this (I'm from Melbourne).

Flood damage is a good one, but I think you would see signs of surface rust upon visual inspection. Something I'll need to keep in mind when looking.

I'm happy to entertain different brands within my budget, those are just the ones I see plastered all over forums. I need something that will tilt 45 and be equipped with a scoring blade to avoid melamine chipping.

Originally Posted by Probla

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I need a saw that cut angles, my budget is <$5k and I am happy to get something old. I've been doing alot of research and the brands that keep coming up are SCM, Altendorf and casadei.

I've been keeping an eye on gumtree and other used classified sites. There's a lot of Alendorf F90s for sale within my price range, but they won't cut angles. The F-45 is the model that will, but they tend to be out of my price range. The casadei look like good value for money and they will do everything I want (infact my cabinet maker friend had a casadei).
...

If all functions check out and I land this saw in my garage on a level surface, is there anything else I need to do to? Should the saw be serviced? What do they actually do during a saw service and how much does that usually cost? Should I ask the purchaser for a 'service history' ?

Not sure about the saw being serviced or service history but it definitely need calibration, the intervals depend on the quality of the machine and how much work you do.

Just get a slider that fits your garage, dont be like me when I bought my current slider, the carriage measures 3.8m, total sliding length is 7.6m, I need to open my garage door to use the full length and when it sit there, is just a hindrance.

When I purchased it I was hoping to use the extra length as a router table slider but that never eventuated, and it was a steal for the quality of the saw (Griggio mid level)

Originally Posted by Albert

Not sure about the saw being serviced or service history but it definitely need calibration, the intervals depend on the quality of the machine and how much work you do.

Just get a slider that fits your garage, dont be like me when I bought my current slider, the carriage measures 3.8m, total sliding length is 7.6m, I need to open my garage door to use the full length and when it sit there, is just a hindrance.

When I purchased it I was hoping to use the extra length as a router table slider but that never eventuated, and it was a steal for the quality of the saw (Griggio mid level)

Thanks for the reply! In terms of calibration, this is just to ensure it cuts straight/square? I see plenty of methods for testing this and as long as I have the instruction manual, the saws can be adjusted to suit? Provided bearings/belts etc. are all in good condition.

Originally Posted by Probla

Thanks for the reply! In terms of calibration, this is just to ensure it cuts straight/square? I see plenty of methods for testing this and as long as I have the instruction manual, the saws can be adjusted to suit? Provided bearings/belts etc. are all in good condition.

There is a little more to it, gotta check levelness of the sliding carriage in XY direction, sliding carriage to be set higher, out rigger levelness, you also need to make sure the rip side rip straight, the rip fence opens up slightly,.... etc.

all pretty straight forward.

Originally Posted by Albert

There is a little more to it, gotta check levelness of the sliding carriage in XY direction, sliding carriage to be set higher, out rigger levelness, you also need to make sure the rip side rip straight, the rip fence opens up slightly,.... etc.

all pretty straight forward.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for being naive, but can you elaborate on these points? Are they all adjustments that can be made within the machine?

Yes. Seek out David Luckensmeyer’s articles in the last two Australian Wood Review magazine. He covers the steps gleaned from the collective wisdom from the Felder owners’ group and industry practices. Or, you can spend hours searching the various forums.

There are a few tools you will need to calibrate machines…the more sophisticated the machine the more esoteric the tools. For a panel saw, a good straight edge, feeler gauges, a couple of dial indicators and holders for them. A large precision square is very helpful.

Originally Posted by Probla

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for being naive, but can you elaborate on these points? Are they all adjustments that can be made within the machine?

If you have a few machines, I find it cost effective to call in the technician to calibrate the machines for you. they are faster and knows what they are doing, well, at least know more than me...

I know the basics and what suppose to be done. you need proper tools and they are not cheap, and those tools you only use during calibration, for example, a quality long straight edge at the length that's usable, will cost in the thousands.

Probla, where are you located? North America? Not applicable? It may be that there are forum members close to you to offer help. Me included.

BTW, you can get a good straightedge for around $700

Greg

Something else I wanted to mention…

I have a third hand 1999 Felder BF6-31 combination which was loaded and trucked three times to get to me. That grade of machine are not the most robust, yet the machine arrived in calibration.

Point being that a saw currently in use at a cabinet shop is likely well tuned and is likely to stay that way during shipping. So you may never need to calibrate the saw. If you do, it is possible with a good straightedge and feeler gauges. Sometimes a good level is good enough because you are only going to get within a couple of thousandths of an inch. 0.002 at best.

And on straightedges, I see Carbatec has a Veritas 36” steel one for under $100. Precision is just good enough.

Originally Posted by Greg Q

Something else I wanted to mention…

I have a third hand 1999 Felder BF6-31 combination which was loaded and trucked three times to get to me. That grade of machine are not the most robust, yet the machine arrived in calibration.

Point being that a saw currently in use at a cabinet shop is likely well tuned and is likely to stay that way during shipping. So you may never need to calibrate the saw. If you do, it is possible with a good straightedge and feeler gauges. Sometimes a good level is good enough because you are only going to get within a couple of thousandths of an inch. 0.002 at best.

And on straightedges, I see Carbatec has a Veritas 36” steel one for under $100. Precision is just good enough.

Thanks for the replies. Sorry I am in Melbourne,Victoria Australia. I think I will just get a technician to come out and do any calibration that needs doing. Any recommendations in the Melbourne area?

One more question, I intend on cutting double sided melamine, what type of blades are recommended for the scoring and main blades? Are they all 350mm with a 30mm bore?

So last first…blade size depends on the saw. Some saws (like most Felders for example) can only use a 250 blade when using scoring. The scoring blades are 80mm. Both have a 30mm arbor. But those dimensions are not absolute…depends on which saw you get.

Plus, any kind of human is going to include a couple of blades with the saw. Even resharpened will get you through a couple of kitchens I would think.

Also, I do know a very good calibration expert in Melbourne. I can check with him of course to see if he wants any of that work. I think it depends again on which brand of saw you get. I think he is expert on mainly Felder and Martin, maybe Altendorf.

Another question to ponder: do you have three phase power?

So last first…blade size depends on the saw. Some saws (like most Felders for example) can only use a 250 blade when using scoring. The scoring blades are 80mm. Both have a 30mm arbor. But those dimensions are not absolute…depends on which saw you get.

Also, I do know a very good calibration expert in Melbourne. I can check with him of course to see if he wants any of that work. I think it depends again on which brand of saw you get. I think he is expert on mainly Felder and Martin, maybe Altendorf.

Another question to ponder: do you have three phase power?