Random thought about Felder and SCM.

**Albert** · 9th July 2021, 09:12 PM

Visited Felder today to have a look the deal the agent was raving about on the phone.

My thought about the Felder's top of the line Kappa 590.
The Felder has very large screen and easy to use software - being Felder I am not surprised these are upgrades from standard machine, the software is very intuitive, it almost made the operator's brain redundant, just follow the instructions.

A lot of information online for Felder's product and good local support (I own a Felder AD951, Bought new from Felder NZ)

However, there are a few minor details that I am not particularly happy about, I wont delve into great detail. I will use the following photos as an example, this is my Griggio Unica 350/400 mitre fence extension, the extension is a thick aluminium extrusion that measures 60 x 45mm. This is almost a basic model from Griggio in 2013, probably costed $20k back then.

You would think the mitre fence extension on the top of the line Felder panel saw that cost $60k NZD should have something substantial. but no. it was just a 25mm x 25mm (or 30 x 30) boxed section - sorry I didnt take a photo, it is very similar to what I had on my Robland NX410.

If Felder had the Griggio style mitre fence extension Felder will rave about it, there will be a lot of photos online with well written description that makes you want to buy it, possibly even a Youtube clip from Felder dedicated to this mitre fence, and when you visit Felder you are told this is an option you have to fork out more $$$ I am not surprised Griggio has such a nice mitre fence, they use to make Martin's entry level saw.

obviously this is just one little detail and probably dont matter to a lot of woodworker, no one is going to buy/not buy a panel saw because of this.

in terms of SCM's user manual and local support, they are pretty useless when compared to Felder. I took delivery of a high end model Spindle moulder from SCM recently, when you read SCM user manual you often wonder if the guy who composed the manual went on lunch and skipped a few lines, as result of this I have to teach myself on certain aspects of the spindle moulder, dont get me wrong, the spindle moulder is beautifully made, well engineered with attention to details that you cant even begin to think of, the spindle moulder purchasing experience actually made me want to replace my Felder AD951 to a SCM FS7.

IMG_4837.jpg IMG_4834.jpg IMG_4835.jpg IMG_4836.jpg

**markharrison** · 10th July 2021, 12:05 AM

Speaking as an SCM/MiniMax owner, buy the Felder. The price will be your only regret, and you will get over it.

It's not that they make bad stuff. they don't. They are just hopeless to deal with.

I worked for a large Italian industrial company early in my career. It was chaotic, and that is sugar-coating it. The combined experience has put me off buying any complex Italian product (especially vehicles!) because I just don't want to deal with the weapons grade BS if there is an issue.

**Mr Brush** · 10th July 2021, 02:16 PM

Ahhh, Italian vehicles. Beautiful, sexy, curvaceous.....but somehow, deep in your heart of hearts, you just KNOW they are going to break in a very expensive way. Especially electrics. Having all the windows go down every time you turn on the radio is novel, but the novelty wears off fast when you try to get them to fix it .

**ian** · 10th July 2021, 03:27 PM

I know that in the US F.I.A.T. stands for Fix It Again Tony.

Does SCM translates to Stupidly Confusing Manual ??

**Albert** · 10th July 2021, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by markharrison

Speaking as an SCM/MiniMax owner, buy the Felder. The price will be your only regret, and you will get over it.

It's not that they make bad stuff. they don't. They are just hopeless to deal with.

I worked for a large Italian industrial company early in my career. It was chaotic, and that is sugar-coating it. The combined experience has put me off buying any complex Italian product (especially vehicles!) because I just don't want to deal with the weapons grade BS if there is an issue.

Thanks for the advice, Mark. I havnt had the experience of dealing with Italian companies, I hope I am one of the lucky ones that got the right machine and will never have to deal with Italian weapon grade BS....

**Albert** · 10th July 2021, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by ian

I know that in the US F.I.A.T. stands for Fix It Again Tony.

Does SCM translates to Stupidly Confusing Manual ??

lol I must admit I was exaggerating a bit there, what put me off is the error message on the screen, for example, if I have an error message 22, I look up the manual, there is Error message 21, maybe 23, but not 22. that kind of thing.

some of the manual are probably just bad translation. I was a bit confused with part of the English manual, I showed the original Italian manual to an Italian friend and he translated for me while we are at the machine, and it made sense. I guess an Italian machine needs an Italian operator...

**aldav** · 10th July 2021, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by markharrison

Speaking as an SCM/MiniMax owner, buy the Felder. The price will be your only regret, and you will get over it.

It's not that they make bad stuff. they don't. They are just hopeless to deal with.

I worked for a large Italian industrial company early in my career. It was chaotic, and that is sugar-coating it. The combined experience has put me off buying any complex Italian product (especially vehicles!) because I just don't want to deal with the weapons grade BS if there is an issue.

I'll second that Mark.

It takes a minimum of 6 months to get anything done, and only that little time if you follow them up on a very regular basis.

**elanjacobs** · 10th July 2021, 07:23 PM

Altendorf not available over there?

**Albert** · 10th July 2021, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Altendorf not available over there?

Actually, they are!

Martin is not available though

Gonna check them out on Monday.

**hurcorh** · 11th July 2021, 01:54 AM

I ordered a combo SCM jointer planer recently. Had nothing but good experiences with their staff. I'm yet to get the machine but fingers crossed that all goes smooth. Delivery due in 1st week of October. I got the similar spec'd model from Felder priced up. Aside from being more expensive for everything, I have spoken with others that have pretty average experiences with Felder recently on both the drop in quality of the Hammer line and also their larger Bandsaws having some pretty serious issues from factory considering the price paid.

**Albert** · 11th July 2021, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by hurcorh

I ordered a combo SCM jointer planer recently. Had nothing but good experiences with their staff. I'm yet to get the machine but fingers crossed that all goes smooth. Delivery due in 1st week of October. I got the similar spec'd model from Felder priced up. Aside from being more expensive for everything, I have spoken with others that have pretty average experiences with Felder recently on both the drop in quality of the Hammer line and also their larger Bandsaws having some pretty serious issues from factory considering the price paid.

You will be pleasantly surprised with the quality when you receive it, although for my machine it took sometime for it to be made, deposit paid in early July, machine were completed around end of December. Good thing always take time, I was very surprised with my SCM spindle moulder, the attention to detail, how it’s made. It made my Felder equipment look and feel cheap. Felder Kappa 590 come with neon lights luminating it’s front panels and it cost 700 euro as an option. Some people might love it. But not on my SCM thanks.

I too have heard a number of issues with their x10 bandsaw recently and locally, not so much about their x40 line - think it’s made by ACM.

the SCM is so well built I start to hate myself for not getting the the L’Invincibile spindle moulder, before I ordered my SCM spindle moulder I have put my hands on Felder’s Profil45 spindle moulder, SCM’s equivalent SM cost $10k more but the quality between the two is huge. I find Scm generally cost more than Felder equivalent but it’s there for a reason ( or two)

**riverbuilder** · 11th July 2021, 03:06 PM

Isn’t the L’invincible a model made by SCM?

**Albert** · 11th July 2021, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

Isn’t the L’invincible a model made by SCM?

yes that’s correct

My current spindle moulder is SCM Class, It’s TI 145 EP.

I should have gotten the L’Invincibile range but at the time 65k is a lot of money.

**Albert** · 13th July 2021, 11:23 AM

After reviewing my own experience with Felder and SCM, and what they are capable of, I've ordered the L'Invincibile si X

[email protected]

very excited but also a little nervous because the saw cost about the same as a deposit for a house, and I am not sure if I got everything right - I am leaving it to the hands of SCM, a lot of optional items are standard on the L'Invincibile.

By the way SCM just had their annual 3% price rise, in some machines its 5%.

Not sure for Felder/Hammer crowd, maybe this has already happened?

**Mr Brush** · 13th July 2021, 11:35 AM

Wow - that is one very sexy machine !

I doubt I could even afford the size of shed required to house it

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