Thread: rip fence orientation

Originally Posted by Uncle Al

Butchers bandsaws are often back to front to standard woodworkers bandsaws. No idea why, and it doesn't seem to be a universal trait for butchers.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread.

Alan...

Size of the primary cut (bulk piece of carcass) requires more space than the wheel size can provide. Think full hind quarter or full fore quarter. The leg would hit the pillar.

Originally Posted by rustynail

... Lewin was a journalist with the ABC. No trade background that I know of. He presented his invention on The Inventors in 1976. I thought it was a piece of crap then and I still do.

I have had Tritons since 1982 - still have one but cannot remember when I last used it - and I sort of half agree with you.

They were extremely well marketed in the 1980's - remember when you couldn't go into a hardware store without viewing a Triton demonstration - and I can still remember a demonstrator saying that they cut to an accuracy of "better than 1 mm - no, I didn't omit the decimal. And you could use your existing circular saw and router. Triton's were cheap.

Contractors saws in the 1980's were far more expensive and relatively rare, especially in home workshops and a lot of the few existent saw benches were shop built. Some were reasonable; most were rough and dangerous.

Then along came Triton - bright orange pressed metal - it was crap, but it was a superior type of crap to the alternatives then available. Especially in the hands of someone like me who thought that circular saws should only be used freehand.

In retrospect, Triton's were important and a major step in the home workshop, but sawbenches are so much better and cheaper now - the Triton era has passed.

.
You do have a riving knife on your triton?
Are we talking push sticks?



yes to all of the above

I have pushsticks stashed all around the workshop for the router, bandsaw and table saw

the only time I would touch the timber on the way out is when it's a longer peice that may need support rather than fall to the ground , otherwise its pushsticks all the way
the riving knife is a must

I bought a Triton Mk3 when they first came out. I upgraded to a 2000 when they were released and then I bought a cabinet saw when I had the funds and the workshop space.
I no longer have any space but I just bought an as new 2000 for $80. Added a Hitachi saw for $50 and I now have table saw capability again. I still have no space but I can pack it up and tuck it away when I don't need it.
I think I prefer the fence on the right but it didn't take long to get used to the fence on the left on the Triton.

Originally Posted by rustynail

There is no problem using a fence on a sliding table saw, provided the fence is set properly. You can easily pick a novis when the fence is set too far forward and the piece binds between the blade and the fence.

I set my fences right across to the back side of the saw table . I much prefer them there. I'm not a Novis . And I don't think others that use them like that are either.
Of the two table saws I use, one came with a fence that long and the other slider has the capability of setting a fence forward or back. I add a wooden fence on to that that is longer. Ive used the fence set back close to the blade to give space for the cut board springing into the fence and don't like it. It feels to unsafe when getting to the end of the cut. You lose support and the board starts moving where ever it likes.

Just the other week I was ripping 10mm of a 42mm thick 3 Meter long US white Oak boards bringing them down to final width before planing the saw marks off. I had about 12 to do . The longest fence I had was needed to keep the cut as accurate as possible. I had a shorter one and the slightest wiggle feeding it in showed up on the cut badly.

Now I'm just cabinet making using KD US timber most of the time . I get boards moving . Most of the time its pinching the riving knife and getting stuck. Sometimes it's pressing on the fence . Having a feel for it and knowing when to hang on hard and get ready for the trouble ahead is what comes with experience. Not hanging on hard enough when the blade starts insisting its the one in control and you can lose control real quick. The worst that happens for me is I hit the stop button and tap a wedge to get it to let go of the riving knife.
I wonder was this fence setting back for relief more a thing used in larger re saw situations used for breaking down large pieces in saw mills? Because it doesn't work for me in a cabinet making workshop situation.

I much prefer breaking down all my large timbers on the 30" band saw with a 1 1/4 " blade. Things like ripping 4 and 5"and larger stuff down the middle is great on the BS. The two table saws I use more for accurate cutting to size and things like taking a small edge off thicker/ wider things a lot of the time .

Narrow strip ripping the fence can be as far forward as you wish. Sheet cutting on a sliding table saw with the fence set too far forward is a night mare and as I said, sure sign of a novis. When you are cutting 200 sheets a day, every day, it doesn't take long to realise there is a lot more to using a saw than flicking the switch.

I thought you meant all rip sawing I didn't realize your talking sheet material on panel saws.
I'm not talking about sheet material or that type of slider panel saw. I'm just talking solid wood conversion from small to large and the type of saw or slider used for that. Not sheets. Pattern making, Cabinet making and solid quailty joinery type use like was done on classic quality saws and even new ones.
I don't cut sheets much . Its all solid work . Ive never used that type of panel saw. Cutting any amount of sheets a day isn't something I do . I wouldn't mind getting a second hand panel saw one day possibly but that may never happen. I get to much work doing solid work as it is .
Plenty of saws come out with the long fence from factory with no adjustment possible so they obviously thought there was no need at that size work. Ive read before of this fence setting close to the blade for solid wood but never known where its suggested use kicks in. I think all the old rip saws Ive seen have the fence sitting around the end of the blade with the option of adding extra wood to them. Setting a rip fence that way for solid wood conversion must be a larger saw mill type use ??

Like I said. I tried it on My larger saw. The Wadkin PK and its wasn't nice. So I screwed a long board to it which is an option that came with the fence.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Like you, most of my work these days is in solid, furniture timber. When ripping narrows I prefer the fence past the blade, as you have suggested. For wide stock, particularly flitch breakdown, I set 50mm beyond the cutting edge of the teeth.
This allows the riving knife to do its job and also makes life a lot easier for the tailer out if you have one. Another factor on large volume saws it blade flex from friction heating. When this happens the timber needs room to move or you are going to wear it. Hence the short fence on breakdown saws.

sorry to but in ,but I thought I might have a say about the safety,
Please always stand left or right of the blade never ever with your body in line with blade I always remember our " Horror " movies at technical college when we were apprentices 65 years ago. the person was behind the blade and had the timber kick back and went straight through him and took his backbone out also another had his ring on his finger caught taking his finger off in one long strip.
I still remember it to this day
I don't know if they have these horror movies today.
regards B.R.

Originally Posted by brickyrob

sorry to but in ,but I thought I might have a say about the safety,
Please always stand left or right of the blade never ever with your body in line with blade I always remember our " Horror " movies at technical college when we were apprentices 65 years ago. the person was behind the blade and had the timber kick back and went straight through him and took his backbone out also another had his ring on his finger caught taking his finger off in one long strip.
I still remember it to this day
I don't know if they have these horror movies today.
regards B.R.

I remember those horror movies well, if nothing else, It always reminds me to stand to one side when I use the saw

, same scenario with the guy getting run thru with a 4x2
, I reckon there was a lot of shock value and maybe a bit of added effect in that film, but it certainly got the message home

Originally Posted by brickyrob

... I don't know if they have these horror movies today.
regards B.R.

Originally Posted by Hodgo

... same scenario with the guy getting run thru with a 4x2 ...

Yep; I went back to school five years ago and saw the "safety" horror videos. Same bit of 4x2????

1. That 4x2 spearing someone,
2. Slider saw - that kickback 4x2 dislodged 6 bricks in the wall,
3. Saw hitting palm,
4. Finger "wriggling" on saw bench,
5. Someone catatonic because of injury to someone else.

Also videos of first aid, the medical treatment, healing process and lingering effects - restricted movements, missing digit, and psych effects.

Sickening, horrifying and enlightening.

When I was an apprentice the sadistic bastards liked to run them just before lunch.

when I worked in a defunct cabinet makers workshop (and I use that term with a great deal of scepticism) I had to work the edgebander one day, no safety shields, no SOP, accident waiting to happen.
And it did mangling my digits on left hand. I had enough presence of mind thinking get cold water on that to help stem the flow. Could not understand why as I passed another workbench that guy was flat on the floor. Unconscious.

These things happen when one is assembling a bedside cabinet and a fingertip drops from the sky.

Suffice to say, workcover were called in and the place was shut down 3 weeks later. I still have timber from when the place was accidentally left unlocked one night so the 'cleaners' could come in. No tools or equipment went but a lot of trailers were busy that night.