Thread: SAWSTOP - The Argument

Originally Posted by Ruddigar

I'd had enough and started the argument afresh in its own place. Since then, he appears to have decided not to participate.

You should make up your mind. One minute you are complaing im stalking you and the next because im ignoring you.

Ive said over and over why i think this machine will have limited sales here in Australia and why the actions of Gass were in my opinion wrong, so im happy to sit back and read other opinions. And i do not have a vested interest in Jet/Powermati, I just know the owner of a particular company.

But what i do know is, i would rather spend $2500 on a Powermatic, and taking away the brakeing system, its the equivalent of the SawStop, even Fine Woodworking came up with that conclusion in the side by side comparison. And with the $2500 i save i will be very happy to put that towards other tools

Originally Posted by Lignum

You should make up your mind. One minute you are complaing im stalking you and the next because im ignoring you.

I started this thread so you could argue with me rather than do so everywhere else. Once you decided not to participate, I figured you must've been the type of bloke to sneak up on someone from behind and sucker-punch them, rather than step into the ring and box fairly.

Glad you are back and have proved me wrong.

Originally Posted by Lignum

But what i do know is, i would rather spend $2500 on a Powermatic, and taking away the brakeing system, its the equivalent of the SawStop, even Fine Woodworking came up with that conclusion in the side by side comparison.

But the other night you said that Powermatic leaves it for dead with engineering (and value for money)
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...5&postcount=34
Now you are saying they are equivalent?
Furthermore, the only downside that FWW found with the SawStop was the walnut insert. That no longer exists.

Let's get back to that price for a minute.

Woodworking Warehouse sells the PM2000 (the machine that was compared to SawStop) for $3415.01, according to their website. That represents a difference of $1534.99, not the $2,500 you are claiming. Does the Powermatic price include delivery and installation? I know SawStop's does.

Your inaccuracies and inconsistencies astound me.

IF I was running a business and I had employees who would use a tablesaw constantly THEN I would definitely buy the SS. No question asked, in fact I would buy more than 1 saw.

BUT I don't have a business to run so I will stick with my much loved JET supersaw.

Originally Posted by Ruddigar

Keep in mind that when I was doing the demos in Newcastle, I was wearing leather boots with thick rubber soles. I was not earthed. My hands were only touching the sausage and the timber that the sausage was sitting on.

At the demo I saw I was watching the saw like everyone else I was not watching weather you were leaning on the table or not
I am a little clearer now on the operation principal as to what activates the stop and that total insulation plays no part in the operation, up till now I had not heard you mentioned the high frequency in relation to the voltage signal
Thanks for the explanation I would be interested in hearing weather you daughter activates the trip or not.

Originally Posted by Ruddigar

I disagree. Until two weeks ago, the only way people would know that SawStop was available in Oz is if they had read my thread on this forum, or come into our office to ask us directly.
As for buying over the web, SawStop would not sell their machine over the internet. And besides, I have tried to sell machines to Melbourne and people flatly refused to buy them as I was in Sydney. Imagine buying a machine and the seller being on the other side of the Pacific.

The machine debuted at the Newcastle show. Ads and reviews are only just starting to come out. It is hard for people to buy a machine that they are not aware of.

Thanks Brendan. What I meant was that many people nowadays know what's coming to Australia before it gets here. They check the reviews overseas and are often ready to pony up when product X arrives. As a non-representative sample, this online group would be extreme in that way I'd guess! Advertising clearly helps - let's people know it's arrived, orderable and from whom, and gives people some search terms to use if they didn't know it was arriving.

Having said that, I sort-of understand the issue re: Melb-Sydney. I can only explain that they way I'd work is do my homework online (separate the manure from the, well, more manure ), then find out who has one to look at as the last thing I do. I may still pull out at that moment, but it's quite unlikely. As an example, I did this with the Performax 16-32. I didn't need to see and touch one before throwing my money away . I'd not be averse to doing the same thing with a TS either. Personally, I don't treat them like a car (do I hit my head? can my feet reach the pedals? etc) where you're needing to compare the general nature (4 wheels) with something personal (head height, rear-vision) - I don't think I have any tool I do that with. However, I know some people do so - "Ooh the lovely feel of a LN versus a Veritas". (Geez, I've got the verbals today haven't I ). Oh, and I did the same with a brand new DSLR camera that I couldn't even see since it wasn't out in Oz, but I bought from overseas.

I hope your venture goes well - you seem to have a good rap on these forums and answer questions as truthfully as you can.

Oh, and I've one more question: would the SS go off if you had a pacemaker and jumped in the air while wearing rabbit's ear gloves trying to cut a frozen (!) vegetarian (!!) sausage while holding it in one of your toes listening to your HF radio? What about on Sundays?

Rob

Originally Posted by mcarthur

Oh, and I've one more question: would the SS go off if you had a pacemaker and jumped in the air while wearing rabbit's ear gloves trying to cut a frozen (!) vegetarian (!!) sausage while holding it in one of your toes listening to your HF radio? What about on Sundays?

Rob

That raises a question, do vegetarian sausages set it off

Perhaps I'm a strange fish, but I was having email correspondence with SawStop well over a year ago getting more info on the saw, and inquiring about availability down-under. The modern globe shrunk again by the power that is internet!

Originally Posted by Gra

That raises a question, do vegetarian sausages set it off

It actually raises the question as to whether or not vegetarian sausages has been covered in The Code.

Originally Posted by mcarthur

Thanks Brendan. What I meant was that many people nowadays know what's coming to Australia before it gets here. They check the reviews overseas and are often ready to pony up when product X arrives.

I was speaking to the editor of The Australian Woodworker at the Newcastle show. He was lamenting that a lot of the ads that get printed in their magazines show only web addresses, rather than phone contacts. He quoted a figure to me (I think 60%, but could be wrong) of his readership that either do not have internet access or simply do not use the internet.

To all these folks, SawStop is brand new. Never heard of it before, unless they also subscribe to FWW.

Obviously anyone that reads this post knows about the internet, are not afraid of it and use it to obtain useful information. This is, however, the minority of the wood working community.

Originally Posted by mcarthur

Oh, and I've one more question: would the SS go off if you had a pacemaker and jumped in the air while wearing rabbit's ear gloves trying to cut a frozen (!) vegetarian (!!) sausage while holding it in one of your toes listening to your HF radio? What about on Sundays?

Rob

Depends on whether it is Sunday afternoon, or Sunday morning.

Originally Posted by Stuart

Perhaps I'm a strange fish, but I was having email correspondence with SawStop well over a year ago getting more info on the saw, and inquiring about availability down-under. The modern globe shrunk again by the power that is internet!

Your not that strange To say that sawstop has come to the attention of aussie woodies only in the last 2 weeks is insulting . We are not that backward

Noone has said it only came to the attention of Aussie woodworkers in the last 2 weeks - I was responding to a post of mcarthur's, and even Ruddigar only said that

Originally Posted by Ruddigar

Until two weeks ago, the only way people would know that SawStop was available in Oz.....

(emphasis is mine)


BTW Lignum - can I quote that - most people think I am that strange, so I can now offer a different perspective!

Originally Posted by Wongo

IF I was running a business and I had employees who would use a tablesaw constantly THEN I would definitely buy the SS. No question asked, in fact I would buy more than 1 saw.

BUT I don't have a business to run so I will stick with my much loved JET supersaw.

Spot on Wongo...very wise

Must say - I've been enjoying this thread immensely - haven't had such a good multi-perspective stouch for a long time!

Its been a very entertaining argument! I have seen the videos only, but after having 2 students in my workshop cut of sections of their digits on the tablesaw (NOT while I was supervising!) I can see the merit. I now do all tablesaw work for students, they just mark and point, so there is no chance for hands-on learning anymore.
The price of the SS saw is substantially beyond our budget, and I only wish there could be a unit suitable for retro-fitting available, then we might be able to really teach with the full workshop.

Cheers.

Another question on the technology: I assume that the mechanism works with normal saw blades, but what about more exotic ones like the teflon coated CMT blades (including dado blades)?

How does other coatings affect the sensor - I'm thinking along the lines of what potentially would cause the blade to be electrically isolated from what it is (but shouldn't be) cutting?

Eg (god forbid) silicon spray, wax, CRC/WD40 etc.