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  1. #1
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    Jan 2021
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    Michigan
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    Default High School Engineering Table Saw survey

    Hi I am a high school student and I'm in a capstone engineering course where we work on a problem, and try to invent or innovate something to fill that problem. I am trying to figure out if the safety of table saws is a a valid problem. If anyone who wants too could fill out this google forms survey it would help my research a lot! There are more specifics once you are on the survey screen. You don't have to fill out any information you are not comfortable with, just fill out what you want to. Thank you for your time!


    Google Forms: Sign-in

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Perth
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    Default

    link works but survey does not show up.

    the screen says

    You need permission
    This form can only be viewed by users in the owner's organization.
    Try contacting the owner of the form if you think this is a mistake.
    Learn More

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Sydney
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    Default

    Same result as Bob.
    H.
    Jimcracks for the rich and/or wealthy. (aka GKB '88)

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
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    Sydney Upper North Shore
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    Default

    Ditto

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Lalla, Tasmania
    Posts
    1,349

    Default

    Ditto, I see your not off to a good start regarding surveys, you got to make it easier if you want the info.
    Power corrupts, absolute power means we can run a hell of alot of power tools

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Dungog
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    273

    Default

    Ditto, may need a rethink. I'm sure if we could get to it the members would be happy to respond.
    Good luck with the project

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Michigan
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    2

    Arrow Engineering project

    Thanks for letting me know!
    Can you try this one?

    Table Saw Survey
    If this link does not work then can you try this one.

    Table Saw Survey

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Lalla, Tasmania
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    1,349

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    Survey now working. Cheesepuff, you do know about the saw stop that are now available. If you don’t just google saw stop on YouTube and you will see an impressive video of it.
    Power corrupts, absolute power means we can run a hell of alot of power tools

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    68
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    12,006

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesepuff1407 View Post
    Hi I am a high school student and I'm in a capstone engineering course where we work on a problem, and try to invent or innovate something to fill that problem. I am trying to figure out if the safety of table saws is a a valid problem. If anyone who wants too could fill out this google forms survey it would help my research a lot! There are more specifics once you are on the survey screen. You don't have to fill out any information you are not comfortable with, just fill out what you want to. Thank you for your time!
    just so you know

    SawStop saws (the technology and company was sold to Festool in 2017) are relatively safe because:
    1. the blade is energised with a high frequency pulsing current that can detect flesh
    2. on detecting flesh the pulsing current detects a change, retracts the blade below the table and fires a brake cartridge to stop the blade.
    3. safety is further enhanced with the incorporation of a riving knife and overhead blade guard.
    4. the forces involved in retracting the saw blade adds about 20 kg to the mass of the saw.
    Festool have incorporated the technology on their Presicio table saws. Expect to see table saws from Mafell (another European premium maker) to also adopt the same or similar technology.


    Bosch with their Reaxx saw ran afoul of the SawStop patents -- I believe it was the patent associated with "flesh sensing technology" that was the primary source of the patent infringement.
    Nevertheless the major difference was that the saw blade on a Reaxx saw wasn't slammed against a brake cartridge when being stopped. The Reaxx saw also had an integral riving knife and overhead blade guard.



    Felder or Altendorf or a similar maker, have a sliding table saw that is inherently safer than the typical US style cabinet saw purely because of how sliders work -- riving knife, sliding carriage, etc -- but the maker has adopted a laser style hand sensor. Again the blade drops below the table but is not destroyed by braking and can be reset within a handful of seconds.


    so in a very real sense, the "table saw problem" has been solved.


    However, thinking laterally, finger or hand amputation remains a very real issue for planners, band saws and shapers.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  11. #10
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    Aug 2008
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    Melbourne
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    Didn't want to rain on the party, but yeah...the problem has pretty much been solved by the industry already.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by elanjacobs View Post


    Didn't want to rain on the party, but yeah...the problem has pretty much been solved by the industry already.
    Not sure I agree - the majority of existing and new table saws don't use instant saw removal and braking tech.

    My take is only when a significant number have such features will that problem even come close to being solved.

    Plus there's still other types of injuries eg kick back, to consider which represent about half the number of incidents on Table saws

  13. #12
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    Aug 2008
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    When I say "solved" I mean there are proven solutions available on the market, not necessarily that they're widely implemented.

    Re: kickback, beyond using a powerfeed with anti-kickback fingers, I'm not sure how much can be done. Use a riving knife, keep the blade high and pay attention to what the saw is doing; you can often feel or hear the timber start to bind on the blade before it kicks.

  14. #13
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    back in Alberta for a while
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    Not sure I agree - the majority of existing and new table saws don't use instant saw removal and braking tech.

    My take is only when a significant number have such features will that problem even come close to being solved.

    Plus there's still other types of injuries eg kick back, to consider which represent about half the number of incidents on Table saws
    Leaving aside the kick-back issue -- Steve Gass patented the high frequency technology that allows the saw blade to sense the presence of "flesh" in very close contact with the saw blade. By now we should have all seen the hot dog demo. as I understand the technology, it's sensing the finger coming into contact with the blade that makes the SawStop saws "safer"

    Gass then incorporated a riving knife that, while removable, doesn't really need to be removed from the saw. The riving knife allied with a correctly set parallel fence goes a very very long way with eliminating kick-back
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  15. #14
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    Jul 2011
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    The issue has NOT been solved at all. The amount of table saws that have this technology included(and presumably working) compared to the amount of saws that are actually IN USE would be less than 1%. Far from solving the risk of injury.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by riverbuilder View Post
    The issue has NOT been solved at all. The amount of table saws that have this technology included(and presumably working) compared to the amount of saws that are actually IN USE would be less than 1%. Far from solving the risk of injury.
    RB, I believe you are confusing "problem solved" (yes) with "solution adopted" (no).

    The table saw makers fought tooth and nail to prevent the US Consumer Product Safety Commission mandating the installation of the SawStop technology on ALL table saws sold in the US -- the US being the world's largest single market for table saws.
    as a result, Gass ended up making and marketing his own table saw incorporating his patented SawStop technology.


    so the "solution" exists, and was even replicated by the Bosch Reaxx table saw. Unfortunately, the Reaxx saw was forced off the US market by a patent infringement.
    Interestingly, the Reaxx table saw is still available from Home Depot in Canada where it retails for CAD $1700 plus tax. Go figure.
    For comparison, Lee Valley lists a similarly configured SawStop Job Site saw for CAD $1900.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

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