Thread: Suggestion for Table Saw to do Pro Picture Framing

I was under the impression that picture framers use guillotines to cut timber for framing. I believe mitres are more accurate. I haven't ever worked in the field though

Most modern frame mouldings don't suit the guillotine machines too well - the coatings chip off and cannot be cut cleanly.

Our framing factory has had an old Morso framing guillotine sitting idle for the past 5 years or so......ever since we got a proper framing saw in fact.

A Morso is fine for uncoated (natural look) timber mouldings, but very few customers these days want this style of moulding. It is also much slower to use, as you have to take multiple "nibbles" to cut through a wide moulding.

Mr Brush what saw do you use currently? Do you find sanding is required on every cut your doing?

Originally Posted by 11bigm11

Hi Guys

Im after a table saw to start a professional framing business I have never had to buy one before only used my one at work. Could you please suggest a saw that will be very accurate and reliable. Does not need to be very portable or heavy duty as I will only be using it for framing price range under $1000 if thats realistic?

Thanks in advance Allen

Don't want to be a spoil sport, but I think you'll find that the short answer is no. Also, a good compound mitre saw may be more suited to the job.

I've also found that expensive tools end up being cheaper in the long run as you only have to buy them once

We use this saw:

Frame Cutting - BREVETTI DOUBLE MITRE SAW - Antons Mouldings Pty Ltd

You'll notice straight away that it looks nothing like a tablesaw !

There should never be ANY sanding required. Moulding parts are clean cut to precise length, then joined on a pneumatic V-nailer. For most mouldings (except very ornate ones), you should be able to cut and join a frame in about 5-10 minutes total. That's what it takes to be competitive in the framing business.

We are by no means a large framing operation, but that's the kind of machines you need to make money in this game.

If you want to just get started and see how you go without spending too much (a framing saw is probably too expensive), then a good quality mitre saw like Makita or DeWalt, accurately set up with home-made timber extension tables and length stops, would be much better than a conventional tablesaw. You should be able to tune the saw to give precise 45 degree cuts.

Are you planning to buy and use commercial mouldings for your frames?

By the way, you'll also be up against small photo printing/framing outfits who don't spend any money on a saw.......

We have one near us that buy their frame mouldings from what is known in the industry as a "chop shop". Antons Mouldings (amongst others) offer this service for their full range of mouldings.

You just specify the exact frame inner dimensions and moulding you want - they cut the pieces to length and send them out to you. All you need is a V-nailer to put them together. Smaller operations find this cheaper than buying (and storing) many different mouldings.

You still need to cut the mats and glass, and put the pictures together. Again, with cheapo manual equipment you just won't be competitive (unless you price your labour very cheap indeed !). To give you some idea, our costing is based on a TOTAL assembly time of 30 mins per job. This includes cutting and jointing the frame, cutting the mat, glass, and foamcore backing, cleaning the glass, assembling the picture, taping the back and fitting hanger+wire.

On your marks, get set.......GO !

elanajacobs - as you can tell from the above, I agree.......

It is very difficult to be competitive in picture framing unless you are prepared to throw a bit of $$$ at setting up. It's not really a viable home/hobby business any more (if it ever was).

Thanks Mr Brush some great info, my brother in law is an artist an I do a bit of photography on the side we both have exhibitions coming up and would like to make our own frames, I will not be using typical store bought moldings but rather some beautiful old timber I posses. To get the framing done for both our exhibitions we would be looking at around $10000 we got talking and decided we would try our hand at framing as I have done alot of timber work over the last 7 years. So we are just looking for equipment to give us results as close to the big boys which may lead to a business in years to come.

Originally Posted by Mr Brush

We use this saw:

Frame Cutting - BREVETTI DOUBLE MITRE SAW - Antons Mouldings Pty Ltd

Mr Brush
That is a great saw. I wish I had been able to afford that one when I was doing framing. Alas, it was beyond my means which meant, that I spent a lot more time than necessary, thus having to cut down the hourly rate

11bigm11
Unless you are VERY good, that saw will take a loooong time to pay for itself.
Then you are in a position where you need buyers to help cover your expenses and a workshop to promote your framing business.
As Mr Brush said, you will be up against the el cheapo framers who just serve the customers who don't have any serious artwork, thus do not want to spend a fortune.
Have you noticed how many framing shops are closing down lately?
Bear in mind you will also need a matcutter, preferable a CNC controlled one, they are not cheap either.
A v-nail joiner is not cheap either, you will soon see your $10.000 disappear.
I suggest you look around for secondhand equipment first, then, if you decide the framing business is for you, you replace with new as you go.
Anton's are probably the ones who can put you in the right direction.
Cheers
Wolffie

thanks mate sounds like pretty good advice

The best option, as I have pointed out to others on here, is to use a local framing place to just do the bits that would need expensive machines....

As money gets tighter, we are doing a lot of part-assembly work for people to take home and finish themselves. Mats are a good example - even a low tech mat cutter is going to set you back $5000-6000, which is why we often cut mats to the customers specified size for maybe $20 a go. You can cut glass and foamcore backing to size in your shed with only cheap tools, so those items you do yourself.

As for frames, if you are after nice solid timber moulding (e.g. jarrah, rosewood, whatever) you won't find stuff like that at Antons or Megawood. So......buy the woodworking machines you need to make your moulding to the profile you want, put a finish on it, then go along to your (probably less friendly by now...) local framer and get them to cut the moulding to length and make up your frames on their V-nailer. Again, a good framing saw and V-nailer will set you back $10-15K, so there's no prospect of you owning gear like that. They can cut and assemble a frame in 10 minutes or less.....

Then get yourself a cheap framing point gun and consumables like backing tape, and put the thing together yourself. It'll probably take you ten times longer than it would a professional framer, but what do you value your time at??

As Wolffie has pointed out, to survive in picture framing you either need to invest some serious money to set up, or resign yourself to earning at an hourly rate of maybe $10-15. If we're honest, that's not so different from most other woodworking activities in that respect, eh?

our costing is based on a TOTAL assembly time of 30 mins per job. This includes cutting and jointing the frame, cutting the mat, glass, and foamcore backing, cleaning the glass, assembling the picture, taping the back and fitting hanger+wire.

Wow!!! That is really going flat out I would take about a week to do this, at the very least, most of which is time taken to make the frame

hi 11migm11, if you have been doing woodworking, and have a table saw, I suggest you make this table saw mitre jig found here. I found this to be more accurate than my Festool SCSM for mitre cutting for frames for my family pics and my travel pics. The joint angles always turn out to be exactly 90deg if the fences are correctly aligned, and the opposing sides are exactly the same length, so this means using a stop block on the jig ( not shown).

The one thing I still have concerns with is the strengthening the mitre joints. I don't have a V nailer, and I don't like asking someone to use theirs on my hardwood frames.

Take your art and photographic work to a local framer to get the mat and glass cut, then do the frame yourself, as you have indicated.

You will need a router table or moulding table to cut the frame profiles you need.

Jill - what did you end up using to join your frame corners? Biscuits?

Tonight I've actually bought home a sample of a monster ornate moulding (over 100mm wide) to try joining it with my domino machine. This moulding would be a pain to clamp in the V-nailer, and would need stacks of 3 or 4 V-nails to make the corners strong enough. I'll try the domino on a sample before I decide how to put the real frame together.......

30 mins per picture is easily achievable.....WITH all the fancy expensive equipment. Take away my fancy saw, pneumatic mat cutter, precision substrate cutter (for glass/mats/foamcore), and I'd be just as stuffed as anyone else !