Thread: Table Saw - Limited Space

Dropping the blade and removing the fence is very easy
BUT
Removing the OH guard and the fence rails every time would be a PITA.

One of the probs with removing the OH guard is the riving knife is built into the guard.

15 years ago when I got my SB12 and was using it a 3.8 x 5.3 shed and completely removed the the OH guard and riving knife so I could remove the fence and use the top of the saw as flat workspace. For safety reasons I would not normally recommend this as you lose the riving knife. I replaced the OH guard with a Dust Picker arm attached to the shed wall and set it up so I could swing it completely out of the way. I did not remove the fence rails as I added a cast iron router wing to one side.

Still have that saw but in a much bigger shed.

I have been thinking about the same topic, Bill.

For the last ten years I have had free access to excellent equipment in a couple of commercial shops, so I have not had to think about what I can afford and what will fit in my shopwork. The covid virus blocked access, and it may become long lasting or permanent...

I much prefer a sliding top saw, but most will not fit in my shop (a little larger than yours) and $$$$$s. Also, I have seen a couple of accidents on traditional tablesaws and am very conscious of the inherent dangers.

One of the options that I am considering is not to get a saw bench, but to get:

• A larger bandsaw - perhaps 400mm - and add sleds, plus
• A track saw.

I think that this might be a sound compromise.

Alternatively, I could wait until the Chinese bring down the price of good sliders.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

I have been thinking about the same topic, Bill.

For the last ten years I have had free access to excellent equipment in a couple of commercial shops, so I have not had to think about what I can afford and what will fit in my shopwork. The covid virus blocked access, and it may become long lasting or permanent...

I much prefer a sliding top saw, but most will not fit in my shop (a little larger than yours) and $$$$$s. Also, I have seen a couple of accidents on traditional tablesaws and am very conscious of the inherent dangers.

One of the options that I am considering is not to get a saw bench, but to get:

• A larger bandsaw - perhaps 400mm - and add sleds, plus
• A track saw.

I think that this might be a sound compromise.

Alternatively, I could wait until the Chinese bring down the price of good sliders.

I've been thinking long and hard abt this also. Got a threading going elsewhere in regards to a good compact and budget friendly panelsaw. Of all the suggestions I think I may go with this one. It's extremely compact and quite cheap from its stats should handle half a sheet quite easily and is down the road from where I'm at.
1600mm Sliding Table Panel Saw Australia

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

I have been thinking about the same topic, Bill.
For the last ten years I have had free access to excellent equipment in a couple of commercial shops, so I have not had to think about what I can afford and what will fit in my shopwork. The covid virus blocked access, and it may become long lasting or permanent...

My situation sounds similar but has evolved the other way. What I wanted to do was upgrade my 15 year old contractor saw but I have no room for a slider and my TS table also doubles as a router table.. Fortunately a friend recently bought a business with a large Altendorf slider and as I already have a 19" bandsaw decided to buy a nice SCMS to be able to cross cut stock.

Track saw would be real nice though.

I much prefer a sliding top saw, but most will not fit in my shop (a little larger than yours) and $$$$$s. Also, I have seen a couple of accidents on traditional tablesaws and am very conscious of the inherent dangers.

In terms of accidents per hours of use, TS are the least dangerous wood working machine for both DIY and Professionals.

Thanks for the inputs guys.

So - impractical to remove the rail (and knife) on a regular basis. I figured as much but needed to check before re-fitting the workshop.

Panel saws are clearly out due to space... and budget come to that.
I use a track saw - its OK for breaking down full sheets but its far from ideal otherwise.
Can't see a bandsaw being a suitable alternative.

Which i think leaves me with two alternatives. Make the table saw fit or drop back to a portable contractor saw.
Further thought required.

Originally Posted by BobL

In terms of accidents per hours of use, TS are the least dangerous wood working machine for both DIY and Professionals.

Really? Why did they go to all the trouble to develop the SawStop?

Originally Posted by jack620

Really? Why did they go to all the trouble to develop the SawStop?

Probably "because they could" as much as anything else.

As far as machines go table saws are relatively common in DIY wood working sheds and are involved in about 18% of all machinery accidents representing the largest number of total accidents. Band saws are only involved in about 4.5% of accidents partly because there are fewer BS than TS.

BUT

Given the far greater number of hours TS are used compared to BS if the hours of use are factored in TS are involved on average 7 times in 10,000 hours of use. BS are involved in 26 accidents per 10,000 hours of use. It also takes about 10X longer in total usage to have a first accident on a TS than on a BS. TS also have large visible teeth where as BS seem relatively benign.

As an individual user averages don't mean that much, training, awareness and attitude play a large role in the likelihood of accidents.

To save space have the saw on a wheeled base and have you'r router built in to a wing. I often use the Table saw as extra bench space and seldom have to remove the guard and knife. I would hardly ever need to remove the fence rail. Mine is not a slider but the few times I cut sheet goods I first break them down with the 30 year old makita circular saw to manageable chunks.
Regards
John

A table saw is one option; but one rarely stops there if they are serious.

Have you considered a small combination machine like the MiniMax C26/C30?

Originally Posted by BobL

Dropping the blade and removing the fence is very easy
BUT
Removing the OH guard and the fence rails every time would be a PITA.

One of the probs with removing the OH guard is the riving knife is built into the guard.

15 years ago when I got my SB12 and was using it a 3.8 x 5.3 shed and completely removed the the OH guard and riving knife so I could remove the fence and use the top of the saw as flat workspace. For safety reasons I would not normally recommend this as you lose the riving knife. I replaced the OH guard with a Dust Picker arm attached to the shed wall and set it up so I could swing it completely out of the way. I did not remove the fence rails as I added a cast iron router wing to one side.

Still have that saw but in a much bigger shed.

Hi Bob. I have the 10" version of the same saw and remember seeing the cast iron replacement wings for a router. Do you know if they are still around? Did you post anything about the modification? I was thinking I would have to go with a mdf/melamine/laminate style. How did you deal with access for the angle setting wheel?

Originally Posted by BobL

if the hours of use are factored in TS are involved on average 7 times in 10,000 hours of use. BS are involved in 26 accidents per 10,000 hours of use.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest the accidents involving TS are much worse than those involving BS.

Unfortunately this writer doesn't cite his source, but from his article:

"Most (about 70%) of stationary-saw accidents have a connection to table saws, while only about 7% are band-saw related."
Band Saw vs. Table Saw: Which is Better for You?

That's a lot different to your 18% vs 4.5%.

Originally Posted by jack620

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest the accidents involving TS are much worse than those involving BS.

Unfortunately this writer doesn't cite his source, but from his article:

"Most (about 70%) of stationary-saw accidents have a connection to table saws, while only about 7% are band-saw related."
Band Saw vs. Table Saw: Which is Better for You?

That's a lot different to your 18% vs 4.5%.

Your figure refers to "stationary saw accidents" mine refers to all woodworkshop machinery accidents and includes hand held circulars.

I agree with you that TS accidents have the potential to be worse. Kickback, for example, is not an issue on a BS. About 50% of TS accidents do not involve being cut by the blade and most of these are kickback.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Bob. I have the 10" version of the same saw and remember seeing the cast iron replacement wings for a router. Do you know if they are still around? Did you post anything about the modification? I was thinking I would have to go with a mdf/melamine/laminate style. How did you deal with access for the angle setting wheel?

I haven't seen them for a while either.

The wing I bought was about 100 mm too short and did not have a T-track so I ended up adding an "L" shaped melamine extension on it anyway.
My router fence is attached to the other side of my TS fence as shown here. I've had this for about 13 years and haven't used it that much but when I have it has worked fine. I did post the mods but the pics have gone - here is one I manage dot find amongst my photos showing the feather boards I made for the TS and router

feathers-1.jpg

The blade tilt issue is indeed a PITA but i rarely use the tilt so it has not annoyed me that much. I made heaps of jigs like a micrometer adjustment positioned, circle cutters and freehand workpiece holders but I hardly ever used them.

Under table dust control has been a been a nuisance since I first got it and given I don't use the router much I usually just let the dust spill everywhere and clean it up afterwards. A few years back I quickly put this simple dust collection arrangement together. Its not ideal but it does work.
Ducting update.

Originally Posted by BobL

... Fortunately a friend recently bought a business with a large Altendorf slider and .....

Reversed situation. I no longer have access to a very large Altendorf, a large SCM and Felder, and a Minimax. The smallest Minimax is too big for my workshop!

...In terms of accidents per hours of use, TS are the least dangerous wood working machine for both DIY and Professionals.

But I saw the blood and was involved in the aftermath, Bob. It rattled me! That overrides any statistics.


Spent about ten minutes playing with a Mafell Erika about two years ago. Was amazed by its precision and versatility. Owner described it as a "Triton on steroids, and built by Porsche" - pretty accurate, and I lust after one.
MAFELL Unterflur-Zugsage ERIKA 85 Ec - YouTube
Even had this crazy idea of holidaying in Europe, then cruising home home on the Queen Elizabeth with my new saw. Lost interest in floating petri dishes!