Thread: Table saw recommendations...again...Harvey HW110LGE-30??

Thanks for your input Bucky. I agree that you never know when chance will come calling. I agree that it is better to cover that chance too. However it is a real problem trying to decide where to spend our limited woodwork tool dollars. If I buy a combination jointer/thicknesser I can’t afford a SawStop Pro, but I can expand my woodworking capacity significantly.

No one else can make these decisions but me. However I do appreciate the input from users of this forum sharing their decisions and points of view.

Cheers from ozcroz.

Originally Posted by DomAU

Just saw an add from Carbatec - 15% off all thicknessers and this is following a recent reduction in price on Jet of approx 15%. A 12" Jet combination with helical head is going for $3399- . That's a super good price and would require just a little additional spend if you got the Harvey vs Sawstop. I would far rather have a 12" helical head, quality combo and a Harvey than any Sawstop. But then I wouldn't even pay $500 more for a sawstop.

Just letting you know because you said you also need a planer and thicknesser.

Cheers, Dom

Thanks Dom. I’ve seen the Carbatec sale prices. I am on my way now to my local store!

Cheers,
ozcroz.

Originally Posted by barri

I'd like to chime in here. I owned a Laguna Fusion (2 HP) for two years and was very happy with it until I had an accident and nearly lost my right pointing finger. Ended up in hospital and a visit to a plastic surgeon. I was lucky as all I've got now is a small scar but full use of that finger. This is with over 30 years experience. Accidents can happen to anyone anytime. So I sold it and bought a Sawstop PCS and love it. The engineering and finishing touches makes this a quality saw even if it didn't have the safety feature. The fence was bang on parallel out of the box, the slots are perfect, the guard is excellent, dust control is better than the Laguna, the mitre gauge is one of the best supplied gauges that was a perfect snug fit and the best part was the way you align the blade with the slots. Instead of tapping with a soft hammer you can micro adjust with a hex screw. I got my alignment to zero, yes zero in under 30 minutes. Also, changing to a dado brake cartridge takes about 15 seconds. I have no regrets. My advice is consider the features of a saw first then price second. If you can't afford it then the Harvey and Laguna are great saws.

Thanks for sharing this barri. I’m so glad that your accident hasn’t had more serious consequences. It would be bad news indeed to lose one or more fingers and still have to buy a SawStop.

I am about to rush down to possibly buy one of the Jet Jointer/Thicknessers which are on sale. I will have a good talk about the SawStop but I don’t think I can afford both at the moment. Maybe I should contemplate one of the less expensive SawStops.

I need to give the situation serious thought.

Thanks again for your really pertinent input.

Cheers, ozcroz.

Originally Posted by ozcroz

Thanks Dom. I’ve seen the Carbatec sale prices. I am on my way now to my local store!

Cheers,
ozcroz.

Hi Dom,

I went to Carbatec and they had one of the Jet 12” Combo units on the floor and 2 in stock, one of which had already been sold. So I bought the other one still in its crate for $3399! The guy who served me said that Carbatec have 26 in stock in Brisbane and he expected them to sell quickly. So anyone else who would like one of these machines at this price should move quickly.

For dust control he recommended the Carbatec Basic DC-1200P 2HP Unit, with the addition of a pleated filter cartridge instead of the bag, and a bin lid with 4” input and output for a 44gal drum, which I should be able to obtain in Adelaide. I know that this is not the system you recommended but it is what I can afford right now. I also got their kit of 4” hoses and parts to start setting up the system. I was told that this economy system would cope with the planer/jointer or a SawStop saw using my Karcher vacuum for the saw blade dust collection.

Having just looked through the Carbatec Dust Collection web page I wonder should I have gone for the more expensive Jet DC-1200 Vortex 2HP unit for $300 more. I can probably still do this as I will be picking the heavy stuff up probably on Friday. Would this be worth the extra or should I save the extra I would need to pay for another unit later on?

I looked at the SawStop Pro and I would really like to get the one with a 52” extension table. This would give me a really nice flat work surface for building a Torsion box table top on. However I regret to say that I can’t afford the SawStop right now so I’ll have to work with what I’ve got. I will carry on with my DeWalt portable saw and make a better fitting cabinet for it with some well sized wood from the Jet planer/jointer. I will keep the Harvey in mind too as it would be much better than what I have.

Thanks to you Dom and everyone who has given their opinions in this thread. I will maintain a watch on it.

Cheers, ozcroz.

You'll love the Jet P/T. Good choice.

On the dust collector front, it's a tough one. On the one hand, the 2HP CT or Jet will not be good at collecting fine dust. Period. Just not enough airflow and the filters aren't fine enough either. The Jet is better and will flow a bit more air and the seperator they have actually does work to keep the filter clear longer (a friend has one).

I had a 2Hp Carbatec dusty and it was ok for collecting chips and some of the dust but only pulled about 300cfm through a short run of 100mm flex vs around 1000 genuine cfm for a Clearvue.

So if you have the money, or ability to spend the money, you would not regret a Clearvue in the long term and if you are like me you'll eventually end up there. However, I understand reality and the stress of spending so much money at once which is what makes it tough for me to recommend what you should do.

If you go for the 2hp at first with a view to upgrade later, I think that possibly the Jet would be worthwhile if it's on sale. Resale value will likely be better, the fan seemed stronger and the seperator seems to work ok. But I'm not sure. With either of these, only use the shortest length of hose possible and move to each machine as needed. Also wear a p2 or p3 respirator while working in your shop. You could go down the route of modifying the size of the intake etc (there is a whole thread on it) but that will kill your resale in my opinion if its a temporary thing.

The pity is that if the Clearvue ends up in your future buying either of these now just costs you more money in the long run.

I would give up my Tablesaw well before I ever thought of getting rid of the Clearvue.

Sorry, I understand the predicament you are in - you need something for your new machine and spending another few thousand is un-paletable at the moment. Maybe look for a second hand 2HP as a cheap interim measure? Although im not fond of second hand either. Sorry, it's hard to write a proper response on the phone while at work!

There is a lot to dust collection so it's difficult to give you quick/short advice.

Cheers, Dom

Originally Posted by barri

I'd like to chime in here. I owned a Laguna Fusion (2 HP) for two years and was very happy with it until I had an accident and nearly lost my right pointing finger. Ended up in hospital and a visit to a plastic surgeon. I was lucky as all I've got now is a small scar but full use of that finger. This is with over 30 years experience. Accidents can happen to anyone anytime. So I sold it and bought a Sawstop PCS and love it. The engineering and finishing touches makes this a quality saw even if it didn't have the safety feature. The fence was bang on parallel out of the box, the slots are perfect, the guard is excellent, dust control is better than the Laguna, the mitre gauge is one of the best supplied gauges that was a perfect snug fit and the best part was the way you align the blade with the slots. Instead of tapping with a soft hammer you can micro adjust with a hex screw. I got my alignment to zero, yes zero in under 30 minutes. Also, changing to a dado brake cartridge takes about 15 seconds. I have no regrets. My advice is consider the features of a saw first then price second. If you can't afford it then the Harvey and Laguna are great saws.

Hey barri,

If it’s not too traumatic to recall your accident would you mind sharing with us how the accident happened? It will be educational for us and just may save someone else from going down the same path when not using a SawStop.

Thanks, ozcroz.

Originally Posted by DomAU

The Jet is better and will flow a bit more air and the seperator they have actually does work to keep the filter clear longer (a friend has one).

I had a 2Hp Carbatec dusty and it was ok for collecting chips and some of the dust but only pulled about 300cfm through a short run of 100mm flex vs around 1000 genuine cfm for a Clearvue.

If you go for the 2hp at first with a view to upgrade later, I think that possibly the Jet would be worthwhile if it's on sale. Resale value will likely be better, the fan seemed stronger and the seperator seems to work ok.
Cheers, Dom

Thanks for your advice Dom. The Jet is on sale at the moment reduced from $749 to $636.65. Since I have already paid for the Carbatec 1200 ($369) plus an add-on cartridge filter ($229) I need only to shell out $38 or so extra for the Jet 1200.

They also have a Powermatic 3HP reduced from $2199 to $1869. This has a flow specified as 1900cf/min and twin vortices with filter canisters which they say filter down to 1um 89% and 2um 98%. I may take the plunge and get that - or would I be better to save the extra and get the Jet 1200 for now? I doubt that you will be able to advise me before I go to pick up the systems shortly. So I will ponder on the drive down to Carbatec.

The Powermatic is described at https://www.carbatec.com.au/dust-con...leated-filters

Thanks again for your input Dom.
Regards from ozcroz.

That powermatic would be mighty indeed!

I assume you have made a decision and it's too late for opinions now? If not, my best advice is to take more time to make a decision on the dust collection side, do some reading, ask more questions, provide some more information on your work-space, where you are intending on taking your woodworking; it's a decision that I feel can't be rushed / condensed into one or two days - the pressure to get something "right now" is self-imposed.

I don't want to provide any more comment right now because I don't want to make you regret or second-guess whatever decision you ended up making, and you may have made the right decision for you - it just would have been good if you had given yourself a little more time to make it to ensure you really got what you wanted, or at least understood the trade-offs of the various options as they relate specifically to you (including your work-space, usage, risk-appetite regarding health, priorities regarding cost, noise, space, climate control, etc etc). In any case, happy to help answer any questions and provide info to setup your system (whatever you ended up with) so that it works as well as possible (as I'm sure many others on this forum will be happy to do).

Cheers,

Dom

Also, if you haven't completely unpacked the DC yet, and aren't in a massive rush to do so, maybe read some of the introductory pages on Bill Pentz's website;

Dust Collection Research - Beginner's Corner

Some believe he is a little over the top, but he provides a lot of good information and it's what initially opened my eyes to the health risks, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything he says and don't believe that the area is understood well enough for anyone to make completely black and white, factual, statements on some aspects of it. Still, after spending a few days reading and a few more days doing my own research and thinking, I went out and bought a Clearvue Cyclone, because for me it made sense. But it's not necessarily for everyone, depending on their financial situation, risk-appetite, priorities etc and it's best if you ultimately come to your own conclusions I think.

Cheers,

Dom

Originally Posted by ozcroz

Hey barri,

If it’s not too traumatic to recall your accident would you mind sharing with us how the accident happened? It will be educational for us and just may save someone else from going down the same path when not using a SawStop.

Thanks, ozcroz.

I had just made a crosscut sled and was aligning the fence using the 5 cut method and rotating the stock without looking at where my fingers were when I should have done that adjustment with the motor off but stupidly kept the blade running. I cut the top of my finger deep enough to seek emergency medical advice but not deep enough to damage a nerve. Taking shortcuts due to over complacency is not the way to use a tablesaw. I am very lucky that that wasn't a life changing experience. A happy ending but a big wake up call and just because I have a Sawstop doesn't mean I'll take any shortcuts or be complacent again . You must have a reliable safety routine with every cut.

Originally Posted by DomAU

Also, if you haven't completely unpacked the DC yet, and aren't in a massive rush to do so, maybe read some of the introductory pages on Bill Pentz's website;

Dust Collection Research - Beginner's Corner

Some believe he is a little over the top, but he provides a lot of good information and it's what initially opened my eyes to the health risks, even though I don't necessarily agree with everything he says and don't believe that the area is understood well enough for anyone to make completely black and white, factual, statements on some aspects of it. Still, after spending a few days reading and a few more days doing my own research and thinking, I went out and bought a Clearvue Cyclone, because for me it made sense. But it's not necessarily for everyone, depending on their financial situation, risk-appetite, priorities etc and it's best if you ultimately come to your own conclusions I think.

Cheers,

Dom

Thanks for the reference Dom. I haven’t unpacked the DC yet but I have the Powermatic system in 3 boxes with the Jet Jointer/Thicknesser Box in my shed. I’ve not had time to do anything with them yet as I wanted to get a mobile base for the Jet which I forgot to pick up yesterday. On the way to Carbatec I had car problems but with help from the RAA I drove home. Then I had to tackle a plumbing job to replace a 1” galvanised water riser which had decided to leak. Not a big job but awkward.

My thinking in getting the Powermatic was that a single filter Jet with a fluted filter replacement for the bag would cost just Over $1000. A slightly higher cost would apply to a 2 filter Carbatec system of 2.1 HP I think. So for an extra $900 or so with the Powermatic system I would get a 3HP system with two fluted filters and their turbo filter set up. I thought that it was worth the extra dollars, even though this puts my table saw further back.

I did some reading of the reference you gave me last night and today while waiting for the RAA. I see where Bill Pentz is coming from; in that, if we separate out chippings and filter out larger particles, but force out fine particles smaller than are visible with the naked eye into a relatively confined space, we are setting ourselves up for severe respiratory problems.

This made me think about my set up and where I could place the Powermatic system. There are three possibilities I think, namely

1. Outside of the shed.
2. Inside the shed but with a cabinet shrouding the air exit filters and an extraction fan drawing air from inside the shed to outside.
3. Inside the shed but with a good flow of air in and out of the shed to prevent build up of particles in the available air.

1 & 2 are probably better but 3 may be OK. Powermatic systems gain a mention in Bill’s page for adequate filtering I think - I will need to check the reference again. The specifications for the Powermatic quote high retention values for sub 2 and 1 micron particle sizes which makes me think that I could operate safely with the unit in the shed and the shed doors open to create a though draft. I need to think about this some more and consider what is best when I first set up the system.

So I will unpack and set up the Jet and the Powermatic and do some preliminary investigation.

Thanks so much Dom for your input and help.

Cheer, ozcroz.

Hi Ozcroz,

I can't argue with your logic, I definitely think the 3HP Powermatic is a much better option for the money than the 2HP Jet. This is a system that will at least provide adequate flow in an efficiently ducted system and if you enclose it in a cabinet as you say (either inside or outside) and have a vent to the outside you will avoid any fine-particle build-up issues.

Enclosing and venting outside will also help with the noise (it will be very loud!) so that's a big plus. The only down-side is that you lose the ability to actively heat or cool the shed as you'll be cycling the air out of the shop quite quickly.

Don't forget to think about duct layout and sizing to minimise resistance and maximise potential airflow. Ideally you want to stick with at least 6" ducting - forget about 4" ducting - it will severely limit your airflow. It's also therefore best to up-size the ports on your machines to 6" if possible. Don't feel pressured to do it immediately but it's best if you can do so sooner rather than later. Also, use the minimum amount of flex-hose possible, except where you really need it to connect to a machine. PVC pipe works well for the main lines - just buy it from a decent retailer that doesn't charge a fortune. A local plumbing shop charged me less than half of what Reece Plumbing or Bunnings charge for the various elbows, Y's and straight duct. Use large radius bends if possible and minimise the number of bends as much as possible - longer lengths of straight run will be far less restrictive than extra turns. If you want plenty of help and advice then start a thread in the dust-collection forum - people are pretty passionate about it!

I think you will have a great setup when you get it all installed and running! Not having a mess and not worrying about inhaling wood dust is something that you will never regret spending some upfront time, effort and money on IMHO. Enjoy!

Cheers,

Dom

Originally Posted by barri

I had just made a crosscut sled and was aligning the fence using the 5 cut method and rotating the stock without looking at where my fingers were when I should have done that adjustment with the motor off but stupidly kept the blade running. I cut the top of my finger deep enough to seek emergency medical advice but not deep enough to damage a nerve. Taking shortcuts due to over complacency is not the way to use a tablesaw. I am very lucky that that wasn't a life changing experience. A happy ending but a big wake up call and just because I have a Sawstop doesn't mean I'll take any shortcuts or be complacent again . You must have a reliable safety routine with every cut.

Ouch!! Thanks for sharing that with us barri. I am so happy too that the cut wasn’t any worse! Indeed that was a severe wake up call for you. In sharing your experience, you have given me, and probably many others who read these posts, a lesson in what not to do no matter what make of saw you use. I for one will make a positive effort not to handle wood in the vicinity of a revolving saw blade! It’s a pity that more saw makers don’t adopt a similar method to SawStop for reducing saw blade injuries. I guess that’s why SawStop can charge a premium price.

Cheers, ozcroz.