Thread: Trade Tools 12m10a Cabinet Saw

Hello Lee Roy,
I went through the new saw routine recently. I have now the Hare and Forbes ST12D. I picked it up in Bris for $1355 inc gst. Woodworking show special. It runs a 12 inch blade but I will mostly be using 10 inch. 20 amp cct though-but I will be using a soft start on mine as I am on a stand alone power system. I checked out the GPW and the TTD saws. IMO the GPW is better quality eg the rise and fall sliding dovetail was sweet all the way up and down on the GPW. From memory the GPW is Taiwan and the TTD is Chinese. Have you had a good look at these saws in the flesh. I check things like overall feel of the saw - getting inside with a torch to see how well it is put together-casting neatness, mechanical operation such as depth of engagement of worms into quadrants. Actual depth of cut and can that be adjusted, ease of tilt and rise and fall. Weight also tells you heaps. If it is lighter then where has the metal been sacrificed-from the motor, the castings, the plate thickness in the cabinet, the mechanism that controls the blade? Also table flatness-only a display model I know but nevertheless. Also the trueness of the mitre slots-evenness of width and parallel.
1.The fence should not really flex-that can be downright dangerous. That can be alleviated by building a table with support legs into the space between the fence rails-helps support work
2.I am not sure but I think Carbatec sell a measuring tape that you can peal and set onto the rail of the fence. With my new st12d i will need to change the tape as I moved the table 7 to 8 mm to the right to allow me to fit zero clearance inserts as the original position had about 3mm of clearance from the table up the side of the blade-not enough to support timber inserts. Realignment was spot on.
3.You could shorten the rails. Be sure though. There are other methods of rails for fences but they mostly go a little over the size of the table. I have no experience of these but Incra fences might offer you a solution.
Oh and any where you can get your hands on a saw- give it a try-just to get the feel of mechanisms etc. maybe your local joinery would let you have a look. Or other woodies nearby.
I hope this helps and good luck.
Sorry Lee Roy of course you have seen them in the flesh!
Tony.

I have the GPW saw. The fence is as solid as a rock and is the same one you can buy as an accessory from Carbatec for about $300. If the Trade Tools fences flexes it is not the same fence as the GPW saw. Seriously the fence on the GPW is very good. As for a measure for the fence. The GPW comes with a piece of tape that you stick onto the front rail once the whole thing is adjusted. It works okay.

Thanks guys,

I am going to check out the H&F SB-10H and 12D (cause I want to buy their base with wheels anyway) then I'll compare that with the TTD saw.

Thanks for the opinions, it's greatly appreciated!

Well I bit the bullet.....

I went via H&F this morning and checked out what they had, I liked the 12D but it was more money with less goodies I felt and the deal breaker with all the H&F saws bar the contractor was 15 or 20amp power which I don't have. Went back to TTD and had another look at the 12m10a. I think they must have tightened up the fences because no matter how hard I tried I couldn't get it to flex like I did the other day. Sooooo $1248 later I left....
Couldn't be happier! Haven't tried it out yet, but itching to rip some jarrah posts I've got to attach the the Mrs butcher block.

Getting this from here to the ground was an almighty feat in itself!


Couldn't lift it in one go, so the top and fence rails all had to come off

Hi there I am looking at the st12d, was the only problem the 15-20 amp power, I have just finished building a new house and I got 3 phase put into the shed at the same time.

I've been looking for weeks now online, I just need to have a look in the shop now I was thinking of getting a set of there wheels for the st12 any good you think?

I don't think there was any other 'problem' with the ST12D, but I wanted to be able to use my saw between 2 properties (when I can lift it!) and 20amp power was an issue for me. It was a good saw, but it is more expensive for less saw IMO. The ST12D has a great cast table, but no other frills other than the base on wheels you are talking about which incidentally is now included in the price. The fences whilst different brands, they are both the same style. The 12D is 3hp compared the the TTD 12m10a 2hp

I wanted the router table extension that the TTD saw has because I simply do not have enough room for another router table (small or not) I didn't particularly want the sliding table, however it is very sturdy and I can't see it being a problem, it just wasn't a cast extension table that I preferred.

I went in to H&F to purchase that base on wheels but they are out of stock until the end of August so I had a good crawl over all their saws whilst I was there. It's good, but comparing $1595 + 3 phase power, vs $1248 + $87 for the mobile base with no power mods and I felt I was way in front especially with the router table.

You are welcome to come and have a look at what I purchased, but it's presently sitting in western suburbs, so a bit of a drive for you!

Thanks for the info, I bought a ryobi table saw a few years ago and, well we learn from our mistakes, enough said about that my wife always brings it up a lot.

I already have a router table Kreg® Precision Benchtop Router Table : CARBA-TEC

I saw in your pics that the top come off, how hard was it to get it out of your ute like that? two man job? what is the weight of it the top? and the base ?

I have a hilux 4x4 so it's going to be a bit higher to get off! and then I only have about 30 metres to the shed across gratic sand and soft new dirt/grass to the shed or I could go through the house across the new wooden floor that would go down not so well with the wife!
Greg

Hello Eggs,
the st12d comes with wheels. IMO it is similar to the Carbatec Ts10hb only heavier and has the larger blade. What do you want to do with it. I am building my house and will be doing a lot of sheet work so the fact that I can bolt the sliding table accessory straight onto the saw is good. (Already had the slider on my previous st10hb). Doors and windows and lots of cabinetwork coming up and I earn from it as well. So it will be busy. It also has about 1220 r hand rip capacity. The situation was a little diff for me as I picked mine up for 1355 after a 1700 refund for the st10hb so I think I have a great deal now even after the purchase of a softstart for it. The 20 anp cct was not an issue for me. Maybe H and F will bend with a little talking. They may keep their sale prices for a week or so after the sales finish.
I haven't run mine up yet as I am still wiring in the starter. But it is so similar in build to the st10hb I think it will hum.
All the best with your choice. Glad you are happy with yours Lee Roy.
Cheers, Tony.

thanks Noty

I will using it for some sheet work and making some furniture I looked at the Carbatec Ts10hb but thats pushing the budget.

the st12d is at the limit for me, so you have a st12d, does the top come off ? and it comes on a pallet ? wiring in the starter ? do I have to built it? I'm thinking it's not going to be easy to get into the shed ( weight )

sorry for the questions, I still haven't had a chance to see one in a shop yet or anything else either. I'm a stay home dad and the kids think shopping is boring!

Yes the top comes off but moving it takes it out of alignment with the blade as far as the mitre slots go. The top is held in place by 4 bolts sitting outside the top of the cabinet, so they are easy to get at. If when you first get a saw and it is out of alignment the way to get it back in is by loosening any 3 of the 4 bolts and slightly rotating the table till it's parallel between the blade and the mitre slots. I use a vernier gauge to do this.
Yes it comes on a small pallet-a forklift easily put mine into my trailer for the trip home. My shop floor and the trailer are on the same ht so I pulled the pallet apart, getting the saw onto its wheels(the saw comes on wheels and is held up off them by a few blocks in the pallet) Maybe timber planks and a few mates across the lawn. There are many ways to get the saw off your vehicle. A chain block and tripod over the saw and drive out from under it. A winch and long heavy planks out the back to the ground/trolly. One of those engine lifts-1 tonne jobbies- If you are unsure get help. 270 odd kg is heavy.
By wiring in the starter I mean the softstart. I am on a single phase generator/stand alone power system here. The gen-8kva- will start the st12d 18 amp motor but you can hear it working pretty hard so I am taking a lot of the strain off starting by adding this bit of gear. You have 3 phase so the start load would be much less. I am pretty sure all you need to do would be to get a 3 phase plug fitted to the 3 phase model.
Tony.

^^^^^ Just as above. The top came off with 4 large allen key bolts, I left the side tables on. It was still a 2 man job to lift the top off but I'd estimate it took almost half the weight off. Getting it off the ute was a challenge, my grandfather stuck two long wooden lengths on the tailgate and we basically walked it down the wood 1-2" at a time still on it's pallet. It was slow going but I didn't want loose it and I had no other way of getting it down save for 15 blokes lifting it somehow!

Thanks Noty and lee roy

That's the one thing I have worries about getting it off the back of my ute!

Mick around the corner has a a-frame of some sorts he got a 3 phase gen of the back of his ute I think it was around the 150kg or so, I might have a chat with him.

Sounds like it will be fun not. but I am looking forward to getting one after I sell my trailer on ebay 7 days to go$$$$

thanks again for the info guys you have been very helpful

I removed the top, handwheels anything that could be unbolted then lifted it off the back of my ute by myself. It's not that bad with all the cast iron removed.

I set up the saw today, annoyingly there was a spacer bush missing from the face of the fence, but I managed to work around it until a new one arrives. TTD were helpful about fixing it pronto.
I cut some thick jarrah posts I'm making into a stand for my wife's butcher block. Oh yeah, the saw is GREAT!