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Thread: New bench top jointer 6" or 8"
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15th September 2020, 02:17 PM #1SENIOR MEMBER
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New bench top jointer 6" or 8"
I've finally decided that a jointer might be a good addition to the shed and quite honestly i'll be happy with a bench top unit as i can store it on a shelf for the 350 days a year it is not used and i'm not prepared to dump more than 1k on this at this time.
The question is will a 6" version do the trick or should i at least go up the an 8" model ... the eye is firmly on the incoming Carbatec helical head models.
Apart from sheet goods I haven't had a length of timber in my shed wider that 150mm for what seems like never so based on that the 6" would be ok but the 8" does come with 4" dust port and i do have a 2HP dusty i can use.
Thoughts please
Thanks
Phil
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15th September 2020 02:17 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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15th September 2020, 08:12 PM #2Senior Member
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I too was going to purchase a jointer but after google and you tube I am going to purchase a thicknesser first and make a jointing sled. This gives me something to sit next to my scroll saw which has done it fair share of 300+ days.
I am sure there are those on the forum with both and as I have neither I am not the expert. But I do look forward to others opinions,
cheers
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15th September 2020, 10:20 PM #3SENIOR MEMBER
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i probably should have mentioned I have a thicknesses, even if it’s a cheap old GMC lunchbox unit it has been carefully adjusted to have next to no snip.
‘My view on sleds is “no way” if I can afford a jointer. Sleds seem like a lot of work to get setup for each individual board... but yeah it seems like you really need both.
‘I have in the past pushed the router table into thin edge jointing duties but my bench project sort of demands a dedicated jointer for the amount of boards I want to square up.
cheers
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16th September 2020, 11:29 AM #4SENIOR MEMBER
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I have an old 8 inch jointer and at times thats not wide enough. I also have an old 16 inch but that is wide and awkward to use for small stuff. For much the timber I use, a lot of which has been home milled, 8 inch is around the sweet spot.
You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde
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16th September 2020, 04:47 PM #5GOLD MEMBER
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If all you will be doing is edges 6" is wide enough. For face work you will need at least 8".
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19th September 2020, 09:57 PM #6SENIOR MEMBER
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Well after deliberating... well just deciding how to fall off the fence, I decided to outlay the extra dollars for the 8” and then hit a hurdle.... seems all of the incoming shipment is already allocated against back orders and next shipment is 6-8 weeks out
back to a tough call as the 6” will be available......
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19th September 2020, 10:54 PM #7SENIOR MEMBER
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I would wait for the one I wanted. You'll have the next 20 years of woodworking regretting the wrong decision
You can't use up creativity. The more you use, the more you have. ~Oscar Wilde
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21st September 2020, 10:20 AM #8SENIOR MEMBER
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Absolutely think your right Tony and for the purposes of others reading this thread it is the logical sensible thing to do for what is really a shortish wait in the long run.
My dilemma is that i tend to buy things i need during a project and end up with a need it now timing ....
Simple solution find another project part that can consume the waiting time
Jointer purchase on hold - looks like the Nova Viking might land in my shed first
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16th December 2020, 08:50 AM #9SENIOR MEMBER
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Just to wrap this thread up and not leave it hanging
I held out for the 8" benchtop model and have reviewed it, Carbatec 8" - 200mm Benchtop Jointer review.
Whilst in theory you should expect machinery to arrive from a factory relatively close to being correct this one needed some tuning, it's fiddly but with care it's not really that hard. Regardless it doesn't take away from the performance and has allowed me already to flatten most of the twisted and cupped lengths that i had lying around going to waste.
Carbide cutters arrived this week so we can see what a difference they make.
I did say in the last post the Nova Viking drill press might land first.... well i bite the bullet and they landed together New Nova Viking Drill Press - Initial thoughts and an old Stanley 803
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16th December 2020, 01:06 PM #10
I don't believe you will see any difference in the cut quality with the carbide cutters. The main reason for carbide is their much longer life before they need to be rotated. I would use up the HSS cutters first and then move over to the carbide rather than waste them.
Dallas
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16th December 2020, 01:40 PM #11SENIOR MEMBER
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I was not expecting any real difference in cut quality, however I have already abused the HSS cutters installed, not to the point of a rotation but there has been a reduction in sharpness based on how similar timbers have felt going through. A mix of pallet wood (no metal left) and some hardwood T&G is already taking its toll on the HSS inserts.
I'm getting set to process about 1/4 cubic M of T&G for the new benchtop so starting with fresh carbide will provide some good information on when I need to order more
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23rd December 2020, 08:48 PM #12Senior Member
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When you get over the price shock the Shelex heads for any thicknesses or buzzer is a big plus.
I own 2 thicknesses and 8” buzzer all with Shelex heads. They use less power quieter and far far less tear out which for me was a huge plus. The only down side as I said was the cost. I imported all my heads from the US. 1 for A 20” thicknesser 1 for 13” Dewalt thicknesser and 8” buzzer.
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24th December 2020, 09:23 AM #13SENIOR MEMBER
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The sticker shock is hard to take, especially now that we are getting options with actual spiral heads installed that can end up being cheaper. I know the current Carbatec jointers are just segment cutters but at least one asian company is already doing benchtop jointers with helical heads, so original options will get better and even after market choices should improve.
However my main reason for responding was to question the "less power" comment. I have watched a number of videos that have done power measurements on the Dewalt 13" thicknesser and they all seem to agree that the Shelix heads result in more current hence power being used.
The best despite it's length has to be The video I wish I watched before buying a Shelix (video version 2) - YouTube with the guy actually buying a second machine so he could do side by side averaged measurements.
The reality seems to be that because the cutters are effectively engaged 100% of the time even though the width of engagement is less the total averaged power required goes up not down. It is the fact that the noise level goes down that changes the perception of power usage.
When i finally kill the old 2 blade GMC thicknesser the Sherwood with spiral helical head will likely be it's replacement.
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24th December 2020, 10:02 AM #14Senior Member
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Hi and thanks for the reply. I must admit I was surprised to read the comment regarding more power consumption from the Shelex head.
What do I say...well if you were to run new HHS steel cutter head alongside the Shelex given the right grain direction etc it’s hard to see the difference between the heads. But from that point on the Shelex to me at least wins everywhere except cost. I would never go back to HHS blades. It’s like saying with router cutters given a choice between tungsten router bits wins for longevity over HHS.
But really the one area not mentioned is the included angle at which the blade hits the wood we all know the shallower angle is better if you don’t have tear out.
My 20” thicknesser has a way bigger diameter cutter head than the Dewalt. Do I see a difference slight but it’s there.
As to the next gen machines coming standard with spiral cutter heads....for me I would pay the extra if it was an option. Segment cutter heads or true spiral heads I would still option the Tungsten heads even if it is a segment cutter head.
Steven
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24th December 2020, 12:07 PM #15.
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It does not surprise me the the carbide requires more power as this is well known amongst the metal turning fraternity where lower powered lathes find it harder to use carbide tool tips.
My understanding is that due to the average larger sizes of the grain structures Carbide just doesn't form as sharp and edge as even HSS so has to more punch rather than slice its way through wood fibres. The interesting test is on end grain which came out about the same for both. An interesting test would be to check power readings when the HSS knives start to get blunt - eventually the power requirements should even be greater than for the carbide.
The idea that only one (small) carbide cutter is cutting at anyone time is a bit of a red herring as AC power readings are averaged over at least a second or 2 whereby the head has rotated at least 50 times or more.
The current draw readings in the video are interesting. Even taking into account the 110/240v differences I don't anything like those readings on my 10" combo machine standard knives when I attach a current meter. I have thought a few times about getting a spiral head for this machine but ATM I just don't use it often enough to warrant doing this. I have had it for about 12 years and had the knives sharpened 4 times.
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