Thread: Bent Fence!

OK. I am a little confused.

I was beginning to see it was by weight, when I was in the store. But are you finding "my" costs too high to look at sharing RHS? It was your suggestion.

100*40? We were talking 100*25 I could not FIND a 100*40*3....

I am happy to look at buying a whole length, maybe cut by them to give what you want, and I will absorb the rest, because I can see other uses for other machines.

All I want is to discuss whether we go for 100mm, or 2* 76.2 mm.

Or I will simply buy some Al stock and go it alone, cut or not......it's only a few bux, here or there. I wanted to help..

bugger. away to buy and build my own fence.

i guess good fences make good neighbours, eh?

HAH! Got lucky! They had enough of the 76*25*2.5 in an offcut that they did not want (apparently they are not supposed to cut it), for me to do a double height fence for the planer, and another for the bandsaw, for $16.

It is NOT as true as they thought......probably good enough for most, but what was bent was not bowed, and what was not bowed was bent.. Bent by .25mm over a length of 700mm is obviously not as important as bowed by .25mm over 76mm........but I still need to do some wood throwing to see if the stock needs machining....hey I have this great new drill that I may use as a mill........try on a piece of stock first then use on my fence if it works.

Learning and developing is EVERYTHING.!

Good score Nick. Be sure to post a pic or two of your finished fence.

I reckon they would have just about _given_ it to me if I had forced the issue. It was just a nuisance to them.

I am going to "machine" the fence with my new drum sander, which I have to get across the yard to the shed. My long-suffering wife is away gadding about the world (her reward for putting up with me is that I don't go! ) until next week and I will need her help. So I can make a start but not finish. . I am not sure whether to use the standard mount just to get me going, or build from scratch. Building would most likely need some welding, and (again) my welder is elsewhere. Djahh! My life is a mess at the moment. We shall see.

EDIT: The drum sander was a late idea! I was trying to think what I could bodge up to allow me to get a flat face on the fence.....

Originally Posted by REALOldNick

The drum sander was a late idea! I was trying to think what I could bodge up to allow me to get a flat face on the fence.....

Just pass it over the jointer

hmmm...yeah...I know Al can be "worked like wood" and I intend to use the BS the cut the the fence lengths..but I have a real problem with throwing even Al at carbon steel blades at $80 a pop. Small grit paper...no problem. Also, in the DS I get to make sure the fence is flat, so I take off minimum material....I could do that in the thicknesser part of the planer, but again...those blades .............it just does not sit right.

Originally Posted by REALOldNick

hmmm...yeah...I know Al can be "worked like wood" and I intend to use the BS the cut the the fence lengths..but I have a real problem with throwing even Al at carbon steel blades at $80 a pop. Small grit paper...no problem. Also, in the DS I get to make sure the fence is flat, so I take off minimum material....I could do that in the thicknesser part of the planer, but again...those blades .............it just does not sit right.

Get some hard wax and rub it on the ally and then just take poofteenth cuts - it will work fine.

hmmm....I can get some Johnson's wax (non-grit kind) that I was using for saw etc table tops. My trouble is I really reckon I need to get the blades sharpened and use the jointer a while to get more easy with it, before I start making precision gear to RUN the thing.

I really need to come to terms with safely feeding the wood, and how to smoothly transfer weight from infeed table to outfeed table. I know the theory, but making it smooth without soiling my drawers....suffice to say I played with a piece of wood, and ended up with the taper I knew was a hazard.

I did feel myself getting better as I tried, and actually worked at fixing the taper freehand, just to force myself to get it right.....but not ready yet.

I also got a lot of chatter marks when I ran a piece of scrap Al over the blades: it was a thin piece of plate but some square section, so it was not just "flapping in the breeze". That did not happen with wood, but it was only pine. I watched my feed speed, but at the moment I am simply not very good with it.

I will organise the wax and see if that helps. But when planing wood, there is a fair bit of vibration and from various other wood-thrashing exercises, from hand-held plane to giant wood-chipper, that says "blunt" to me. It's not silk, it's sack-cloth

The sander is just set height and place the piece.

Actually apart from some access holes, I am pretty happy with how even the fence face is. I used a fair bit of care joining the two halves and I ran the digital vernier over it to show a max of 0.02mm of ridge. So the main problem is cupping of the faces, hopefully no twist (only really thought of that just now....not good from a guy who has built a few boats in his time and knows the use of a pair of twist sticks!)

Gotta comment: the expression poofteenth could be offensive. The original was MEANT to sound offensive, but is pfteenth.... pf bdeing pica farad: a tiny amount. I do not mean to lecture, but the first time I heard this used, by a lecturer when I was in class, it caused a huge guffaw and he blank-faced asked what was so funny therefore putting us in the embarrassing position of explaining why we were laughing. He was a lecturer I remember with much laughter. A real stirrer.

Originally Posted by REALOldNick

hmmm....I can get some Johnson's wax (non-grit kind) that I was using for saw etc table tops. My trouble is I really reckon I need to get the blades sharpened and use the jointer a while to get more easy with it, before I start making precision gear to RUN the thing.

Johnson's is not gonna be much good. If you can't get hard wax then a candle is better than the soft waxes.

I really need to come to terms with safely feeding the wood, and how to smoothly transfer weight from infeed table to outfeed table. I know the theory, but making it smooth without soiling my drawers....suffice to say I played with a piece of wood, and ended up with the taper I knew was a hazard.

Are you using a double handed push block?

I also got a lot of chatter marks when I ran a piece of scrap Al over the blades: it was a thin piece of plate but some square section, so it was not just "flapping in the breeze". That did not happen with wood, but it was only pine. I watched my feed speed, but at the moment I am simply not very good with it.

Were you using a double handed push block?

I will organise the wax and see if that helps. But when planing wood, there is a fair bit of vibration and from various other wood-thrashing exercises, from hand-held plane to giant wood-chipper, that says "blunt" to me. It's not silk, it's sack-cloth

That sounds like a sharpening issue.

Thanks for the heads up on the "pfteenth"

Originally Posted by BobL

Johnson's is not gonna be much good. If you can't get hard wax then a candle is better than the soft waxes.


Are you using a double handed push block?


Were you using a double handed push block?


That sounds like a sharpening issue.

Thanks for the heads up on the "pfteenth"

Ok... the Johnson's I have is pretty hard. It is thixotropic so it sort of "shudders" as you manipulate it . However I do have some blade dressing wax as well ,I just remembered. I used it cut some steel that was very cloggy. So that may be the go.

Two push blocks. Is a double-handed one like a sort of surform? I can feel that working: just stay still and transfer force from left to right hand asap. OK. YEP found one. Cool. I will make one up. What about for edge planing? Just work on the wide vertical face?..or something else? I saw one vid where the guy was using a single PB, on the vertical face, with presumably foam rubber on it. The right hand was just guiding the back of the wood. Still gunna take some getting used to: guiding and keeping straight, but not pushing down..oh well I can plenty of wood that I will just learn on. For myself I learned a long time ago to be ready to "waste" stuff on just learning, or non-critical jobs. That was with welding for me. With wood I KNOW I have rushed at it: a common DIY problem I reckon.

This thing makes a TS look like a puddy tat!

Yeah if I look very carefully (as in magnified) I see dents and chips in the blades. Need to get them sharpened. Recommend anywhere in Perth? Pref NOR, but with all the highways across the River these days no great issue. In fact being too close to the coast would be worse.

Originally Posted by REALOldNick

Ok... the Johnson's I have is pretty hard. It is thixotropic so it sort of "shudders" as you manipulate it . However I do have some blade dressing wax as well ,I just remembered. I used it cut some steel that was very cloggy. So that may be the go.

By hard wax I mean about as hard as chalk and it's rubbed on like a crayon.

Two push blocks. Is a double-handed one like a sort of surform?

Yep

I can feel that working: just stay still and transfer force from left to right hand asap. OK. YEP found one. Cool. I will make one up. What about for edge planing? Just work on the wide vertical face?..or something else? I saw one vid where the guy was using a single PB, on the vertical face, with presumably foam rubber on it. The right hand was just guiding the back of the wood.

I prefer the opposite. Push the wood with right and left hand (with some pressure down onto the infeed table and up against the fence) until there is about 300 mm on the outfeed table and then use my left hand to guide the board up against the fence and down on the outfeed table and push the wood along the infeed table with a foam covered PB with my right hand.
For edge planing. I have seen a user worried about the board tipping over clamp a piece of wood with a small step in it across the infeed and outfeed tables so that it creates a slot for the board to travel - sort of a double fence.

Still gunna take some getting used to: guiding and keeping straight, but not pushing down..oh well I can plenty of wood that I will just learn on. For myself I learned a long time ago to be ready to "waste" stuff on just learning, or non-critical jobs. That was with welding for me. With wood I KNOW I have rushed at it: a common DIY problem I reckon.

Yep - common problem

This thing makes a TS look like a puddy tat!

Yep plenty of respect need for jointers. I have 5 mm missing from the end of my left hand ring finger from an accident with a 4" jointer 33 years ago.But I still have more respect for my TS. Remember a TS can throw a ripped piece of wood like a spear.

Yeah if I look very carefully (as in magnified) I see dents and chips in the blades. Need to get them sharpened. Recommend anywhere in Perth? Pref NOR, but with all the highways across the River these days no great issue. In fact being too close to the coast would be worse.

Crikey - if you can see dents and chips in the blades I wouldn't be putting anything near them till they get fixed. This will explain the jumping and rattling.

Last time I had some sharpening done was about 10 years ago and it was by a mob in Welshpool but I cannot remember their name. I'd start with the yellow pages. I recommend measuring the blade widths with calipers and if they take too much off then don't use them again

Yes the dressing wax I have is a block that is as you as hard as chalk. It is designed for just this sort of work: difficult cuts and clogging.

OK. I will take in what you say and give it a go re feeding the board. Thanks

God idea with the fence! Great! It's the sort of thing you think of, but not sure if it's "right"

I used to work with a guy who had taken his finger off down the second joint. Rumour had that he was "clearing the blade of swarf" ....forgetting he had an electric plane. May be true,, because he was certainly working through the transition to electric hand tools.... or he had his finger under the plane guiding it....

Yeah the blades are not that flash. Perhaps not QUITE as bad as I made it sound, but not good.I have a spare set and I will take a look at them.

Do you do your own sharpening now then? Good idea on the measuring of the blade width.I would image not more than a mm or so should come off? The marks on the blade cutting edge are pretty small...way under a mm

I should not say it, but I have never come close to a kickback, although I always stand and act as if it will happen.......... I will show the hole on my gut, that I get next week

I throw myself at your mercy, BobL!

With my jointer came a set of magnetic arms that you place on the outfeed and a magnet sits on the blade, with others holding the unit down on the outfeed
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Maybe I am not getting this right, but the problem seems to be to get the blades at "top dead centre" The magnets tend to sit on the flat at the edge of the blade, and thus at TDC the blade is above the out feed: the cutter head is just off TDC.

Also I reckon the magnets are struggling to hold the blade down against its spring. I guess I can simply lean on the jug.

This can be shown by placing a flat piece of wood or Al on the table, with infeed = outfeed, and sliding the wood. The blades lift the wood a fraction each time. I tried using said piece of wood to rock back and forth until I knew I had set the blade at TDC, then tightening the blade holder. But unless you do both ends at once, this does not work.

The blades are at present at different heights: anyone wanting to know what to look for when buying a jointer, let me know: I will just say what I did not do. Apart from blunt blades, no wonder I am getting less than a smooth feel to the cut!.

So breathes there a decent jig or method, or can I set both blades to the flats then tweak the table (I have no manual).

And does anyone know where I can _get_ a manual?