Thread: What have I brought?

"What have I brought?"

I would say a bargain. It looks to be fairly complete so with a good clean up it should come up a treat. If you need a new motor, switching gear, blades etc you should end up with a really good jointer for sub $1000.

I cant help with much information but it would be worth casting your eye over the photos at the following site as it may help narrow things down:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/bytype.aspx

Keep us updated on the restoration.

Peter there is no substitute for bulk/cast iron!!! Yes you have bought a bargain!!
I have a LS Barker/McPherson 12" Jointer that looks similar (I suppose they all look similar) the tables on mine look to be longer. With some work I am sure you can breath some new life into her. Mine has a 4½" diameter cutter bar with 2 blades driven by a 3Hp 3Ph motor that seems plenty big enough. Do you have 3 Phase?
Please furnish the rest of us with WIP pictures so we can see how you will go about restoring the old girl


Edit; Gee on second examination of the photos, I wonder if it is a Ls Barker? Probably made in the 50s

I have something that looks very similar except mine has a big rebate attachment.
The fence looks identical
It's a McPhaerson 16" planer.
Mine has a 3HP 3PH motor.
I have since added a guard.
Unfortunately I cannot fit it into my shed so I have to keep it at a mates shed

yes I suspect it is around the 50's. The table is 1900 * 410. It seems around 500 kgs heavy. Would ankor a substandial boat .

Peter

Just to throw a proverbial spanner in the works, we have an old 12" at work (retired, but still sitting in the corner), that looks almost identical to Bob's, from the early 1900s. Originally had a square cutter, but was converted to a 3-knife round head at some point. No visible manufacturer's mark, but it has German bearings on the head, so likely European.

Unless you can find a brand on it somewhere, you may never definitively know what it is or when it was made, but it's definitely a good buy.

[QUOTE=Sir Stinkalot;1778934]"What have I brought?"

I cant help with much information but it would be worth casting your eye over the photos at the following site as it may help narrow things down:
http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/bytype.aspx

Thanks Stinkalot for the link. Looked at every 16" machine but no cigar. All yanky gear I think.

Bob your machine looks similar. Dose the rebate table bolt on or is it cast with the infeed table?

I have never looked close at a large jointer before and maybe they are all built similar to this one but it surprised me to find that both tables are seperate castings to the piece that slides/raises on the dovetails. In fact both tables can be adjusted horizontaly towards or away from the head by means of wheel nut and a slot. Maybe thats how big ones are built.

Peter

This style was of planer was made for saw mill /timber wholesaler use and not the joinery workshop as general rule of thumb. The size and weight of the machine was better suited for skip dressing large timber sections. In the 1970's we had one of these for skip dressing our Oregon flinches in the yard before bringing them into the workshop. Whether it is a bargain depends on you, as it need a bit of work to bring it up to safety standards (worksafe). I would strongly recommend that you retro fit a roundhead instead of those lethal square blocks.

Originally Posted by KPH0458

This style was of planer was made for saw mill /timber wholesaler use and not the joinery workshop as general rule of thumb. The size and weight of the machine was better suited for skip dressing large timber sections. In the 1970's we had one of these for skip dressing our Oregon flinches in the yard before bringing them into the workshop. Whether it is a bargain depends on you, as it need a bit of work to bring it up to safety standards (worksafe). I would strongly recommend that you retro fit a roundhead instead of those lethal square blocks.

Couple of questions:
1) Why do you say that this style of planer was made for mill work instead of shop work?
2) It has a mutton-chop guard and the belts are covered. What else needs to be done to bring it to safety standard?

Also, if you zoom in on the first pic, you'll see that it has a round head already.

I agree with you Elan, what else could workcover require, if indeed that worries me. As safe and as guarded as well as any off the shelf machine today.
I found an earlier thread dating back to 2008 with a photo of a page out of a 1951 McPhersons catalogue showing my jointer. It didn't mention size but did say it was a BAKER 4200 rpm and 2-3 hp.

So thank you all for your input. I now know what I have got next Question for me is :will I just get it working that is polish the table, sharpen the knives and sort the electrics, possibly with a VFD or do I go the whole way and make it look and work like a $million.

Crusing around GumTree I found a total workshop for sale and guess what, the jointer was the same Baker, all polished and in working order.


Peter

I have a yearly Worksafe inspection to make sure we are compliant and current. If this machine is to be used in a home workshop environment safety is up to the user. If it is to be used in a professional joinery, it would need the following to comply;-

1 The machine needs an emergency stop.
2 The electric motor needs to have an electronic break.
3 When the fence is to the left, the exposed knives must be fully guarded.
4 The leg of mutton guard would need replacing.

I am not saying that these were not used in Joineries, they were, but it was not the norm. These machines were made for heavy use i.e. saw mills where the machines were only turned off at breaks and lunch. Their accuracy was not that important, it was only used to skip dress for grading.

In my 40 years as a joiner, I personally never used one in joinery environment, only a sawmill. Just because a machine is old and heavy does not mean it is good and accurate.

On the matter of the head, you are correct it is round which is very good.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Couple of questions:
1) Why do you say that this style of planer was made for mill work instead of shop work?
2) It has a mutton-chop guard and the belts are covered. What else needs to be done to bring it to safety standard?

Also, if you zoom in on the first pic, you'll see that it has a round head already.

I have a similar jointer that I recently restored for home use (there is a thread about it somewhere). My research lead me to believe that the round head cutter with the clamshell blade holder is not as safe as the current methods of securing the blades. The clamshell blade holder is relying on bolts to clamp the blade in position. If the bolts get worn, over tightened or under tightened the blades may let go. There are examples of this happening if you do your research, but on the other hand these jointers also operated for a number of years without issues. It would appear that the new methods of securing blades are superior to the other methods and from an OH&S standpoint it would be best practice to use the superior methods, but if it is for home use only then its your choice.

That all being said ..... a new spiral head cutter would be a great upgrade ..... all in the name of safety.

Just want to start by saying that I'm not trying to be intentionally argumentative, I'm happy to be corrected and learn new stuff about this. Also apologies for hijacking the thread.

Originally Posted by KPH0458

1 The machine needs an emergency stop.
2 The electric motor needs to have an electronic break.
3 When the fence is to the left, the exposed knives must be fully guarded.
4 The leg of mutton guard would need replacing.

I'll give you 1 & 3, although I reckon emergency stops are mostly useless without a motor brake which, to the best of my knowledge, is only required for new machines, they don't have to be retro-fitted to old ones. Also not sure what the problem with the leg of mutton guard is?

Originally Posted by Sir Stinkalot

I have a similar jointer that I recently restored for home use (there is a thread about it somewhere). My research lead me to believe that the round head cutter with the clamshell blade holder is not as safe as the current methods of securing the blades. The clamshell blade holder is relying on bolts to clamp the blade in position. If the bolts get worn, over tightened or under tightened the blades may let go. There are examples of this happening if you do your research, but on the other hand these jointers also operated for a number of years without issues. It would appear that the new methods of securing blades are superior to the other methods and from an OH&S standpoint it would be best practice to use the superior methods, but if it is for home use only then its your choice.

That all being said ..... a new spiral head cutter would be a great upgrade ..... all in the name of safety.

As far as I know, ALL cutter heads rely on bolts of some description to hold the knives except for TERSA heads.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

As far as I know, ALL cutter heads rely on bolts of some description to hold the knives except for TERSA heads.

You are correct however the clamshell relies much more heavily on the bolts than the newer wedge design.

There is some further reading here for anybody interested: http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?t=2882...ic.php?t=28823
To quote from the above link:

The problem with a clamshell head is that the knives are directly held in place by the bolt heads. The faster the head spins, the higher the stress on the bolt heads. Hit a knot, and the impact transfers directly to the bolt heads.

Examples of failures:
http://owwm.org/viewtopic.php?t=22268
http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?t=28690

The newer type heads seem to have a better holding system which has less pressure on the bolts.
1.JPG

Ok Forum, I have been coming from a professional workshop environment when I made my comments above, which to many of you seem crazy or stupid. However I stand by my comments and so do my employees.
Having spoken a Worksafe inspector today he told me I am correct in what I have written because it shows duty of care for my employees. This is the key point 'Duty of Care'
Wether this forum feels that what I have stated is right or wrong, that is up to the reader.